Chamber getting impatient with Cullen

[Kevin K Kelehan]

Dublin chamber's transport body fears

January 23, 2006 07:36
The Dublin Chamber of Commerce has said it is concerned at possible delays in setting up the implementation body for Transport 21 in the Greater Dublin area.

In a submission to Government, the body has set out its proposals for the establishment of the Dublin Transportation Authority (DTA). CEO Gina Quin said that, from past experience, the DTA might not be fully operational for three to four years.

'We believe that, until the DTA has the necessary legislative power, the Minister for Transport should chair a Transport 21 Implementation Team which should meet monthly,' she said. This would comprise the CEOs of all the transport procurement agencies, a County Manager representing Dublin's local authorities, the Dublin Transportation Office, a representative from Dublin Chamber and Dublin Bus.


In its submission, the chamber also called for tenders to issued to operators for new bus routes across the city, and an increase of 50% in the bus fleet over three years.

It calls on Irish Rail to look at providing an electric rail service from anywhere within a 50-70km radius of the city, along the lines of the double-decker commuter services that operate in Belgium and the Netherlands. The chamber also says some rail routes should be tendered out to private operators when the new network is completed.

From http://www.rte.ie/business/2006/0123/dublin.html

[al2637]

along the lines of the double-decker commuter services that operate in Belgium and the Netherlands.

NO NO NO. Dublin needs a CITY wide metro/tram system. Not 1 or 2 high capacity heavy rail lines. We live in a low density city/country!!

[Mark Gleeson]

IE actually are planning to go double decker, they don't want to but they aren't rulling it out, if you look at the northern line even at 4 trains an hour its not even close to dealing with demand, 6 trains is unlikely to cope either, so you either go longer to 12 or go double decker or go both, well 4 tracking to Howth Junction ain't looking likely

The problem is the density is now appearing in out lying areas too far away to be serviced by tram or metro

You won't see private operators on the Dublin suburban on single lines it wouldn't make any sense, if the whole electrified section was up for grabs you then would have something still unlike the UK you will never be able to show up and start a service as you need trains and facilites

Out of the huge number of private operators in the UK only 2 to my knowledge are running under open access rules (Heathrow Express and Hull Trains)

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by al2637

NO NO NO. Dublin needs a CITY wide metro/tram system. Not 1 or 2 high capacity heavy rail lines. We live in a low density city/country!!

NO NO NO. We need to focus development around rail (Maynooth line) and put new rail infrastructure into new larger areas. This is not likely in the medium term so do the best with what we have even if it is 2 heavy rail lines.

[Mark]

THE CHAMBER are getting impatient? How about the travelling public? Perhaps we've just become immune to the **** investment..

The line north of Howth Junction is going to be serving the fastest growing area in Ireland. The faster to Balbriggan and beyond the better! The same could be said of Kildare. Also remember the city centre is still poorly served by heavy rail, the interconnector fixes all these problems.

Double decker is just another card up IE's sleeve. They have larger sleeves than the RPA or so I've heard!

Privatise the WRC!!!

[Maskhadov]

whats wrong with Double decker trains anyway ?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Maskhadov

whats wrong with Double decker trains anyway ?

Apart from being a lot taller which means expensive works to lift bridges

The main problem is the dwell times which would be extended as boarding would be awkward

The view is go longer 12 coach trains are not uncommon in the UK and elsewhere.

[Mark]

Just to add to that, Double decker would only operate on the Northern and south western lines.

Could you say then Marko that going double decker and 4-tracking Howth Junction to Connolly are directly intertwined?

In theory could IE go double decker out of Heuston tomorrow? I presume after the KRP would be your answer?

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The main problem is the dwell times which would be extended as boarding would be awkward

Dwell times are generally quite long here. Would it be much different for double decker?

[al2637]

Yes, I agree with Paul. The issue here is the systematic planning failures in the Dublin region.

But unfortunatley, I STILL don't see us getting it right. On the Maynooth line, yes, housing is being built directly along side the line, but the majority is not within easy walking distance. Fingal CC need to wake up and start building VERY high density mixed use developments within 10mins WALKING distance of the stations. This is the VERY FIRST step in building a sustainable public transport infrastructure in the city.

As I keep repeating, Dublin is a SMALL, low density city. We need lots of low capacity lines, rather than 1 or 2 high capacity.

Dwell times are only long on IE's network, they are much better on the Luas.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Paul Mulcahy

Dwell times are generally quite long here. Would it be much different for double decker?

With the internal staircase it slows passengers boarding and alighting

I wouldn't call the DART network a high capacity system it can shift 11,000 in one direction per hour but what it can do is scale, the original rush hour demand was 2,500 it is now over 8,000, it can grow, over 40,000 is possible

[philip]

Originally Posted by al2637

Fingal CC need to wake up and start building VERY high density mixed use developments within 10mins WALKING distance of the stations.

To be fair to FCC, they have woken up and you won't see any more 3 bed semis in walking distance of the line. It's all 4/5+ storey apartment buildings being built along it now. The developments at Windmill/Woodbrook/Rathborne/Royal Canal Bank/Phoenix Park are all large scale blocks right along the line. The next large development will be the second phase of Woodbrook at Porterstown.

[al2637]

Originally Posted by philip

To be fair to FCC, they have woken up and you won't see any more 3 bed semis in walking distance of the line. It's all 4/5+ storey apartment buildings being built along it now. The developments at Windmill/Woodbrook/Rathborne/Royal Canal Bank/Phoenix Park are all large scale blocks right along the line. The next large development will be the second phase of Woodbrook at Porterstown.

Yea, but this is where I see the problem. It is not high density. They need to be building 10/12+ storey around the stations.. not just sticking 3/4 storeys the length of the line.

It's what they do here in A'dam, and it works. We're just creating more problems for the future if we keep doing what they're doing.