Public Consultation PPT & Heuston Services 2016

[James Howard]

So here we are 10 days out before opening and nobody knows what using this new service is going to cost.

Imagine this scene in a private business.
1. I have a piece of infrastructure sitting semi-idle for around 100 years that I can't be bothered to use
2. My board of directors forces me to use this infrastructure and hands me some free money to tidy it up.
3. I invest said free money and tidy things up
4. I do service planning, make usage projections, allocate operational capacity, train staff, etc.
5. Then I decide what I'm going charge customers
6. I expect business to come flocking to me and new customers to all abandon my competitors who they've been dealing with for years.

Is it just me or would this not be an ideal way to go about doing business if one expected to be profitable and stay in business?

[Inniskeen]

Did anyone spot any changes from the original draft or was the public consultation simply a wasted exercise ?

Where has the extra rolling stock come from ? Is it simply stock released by resurrecting the MK4 ?

Anybody open a book on whether it will happen on November 21st given that Irish Rail have been stalling for months using the "we are reviewing the public consultation" excuse.

There are almost zero interchange opportunities with Heuston based Intercity services despite the availability of almost unlimited idle capacity at the expansive Kildare route stations.

Given the poor integration with Heuston services and the very limited opportunities to travel to/from stations beyond Hazelhatch the new service will largely depend on business generated by the inner stations between ParkWest and Hazelhatch. Might be a slow build up but time will tell !

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

So here we are 10 days out before opening and nobody knows what using this new service is going to cost.

Imagine this scene in a private business.
1. I have a piece of infrastructure sitting semi-idle for around 100 years that I can't be bothered to use
2. My board of directors forces me to use this infrastructure and hands me some free money to tidy it up.
3. I invest said free money and tidy things up
4. I do service planning, make usage projections, allocate operational capacity, train staff, etc.
5. Then I decide what I'm going charge customers
6. I expect business to come flocking to me and new customers to all abandon my competitors who they've been dealing with for years.

Is it just me or would this not be an ideal way to go about doing business if one expected to be profitable and stay in business?

The fares from Sallins inwards are all in the fare determination - the final page has the suburban fares matrix.

[Jamie2k9]

Did anyone spot any changes from the original draft or was the public consultation simply a wasted exercise ?

Out proposed changes all happened but:

17.25 (Limerick) remains the same (proposed 17.20 dep)
17.20 (Portlaoise) deferred to 17.28 (proposed 17.25 dep)
17.55 (Newbridge) remains the same (proposed to cancel)****
19.15 (ex Newbridge) cancelled (proposed to cancel-note stock from 17.55 operates this

****Note that 17.55 and 17.28 (ex GCD) are working the same path to Newbridge from Park West so either it is cancelled and a journey planner error. Given the 19.15 has been removed I expect it is canceled as the 18.10 is advanced to 18.05 as proposed ex Heuston.

The 17.28 change for the 17.20 is great, anytime I get the 14.50 ex Waterford its always up to 15 minutes late (14 minute turnaround between services) and and passengers don't even give you a chance to get off the train.

Where has the extra rolling stock come from ? Is it simply stock released by resurrecting the MK4 ?

Probably and likely an expectation that x service will see a drop in numbers and possible a re shuffle.

Anybody open a book on whether it will happen on November 21st given that Irish Rail have been stalling for months using the "we are reviewing the public consultation" excuse.

I suspect it's not all IE's fault for any delays happening...

There are almost zero interchange opportunities with Heuston based Intercity services despite the availability of almost unlimited idle capacity at the expansive Kildare route stations.

Given the poor integration with Heuston services and the very limited opportunities to travel to/from stations beyond Hazelhatch the new service will largely depend on business generated by the inner stations between ParkWest and Hazelhatch. Might be a slow build up but time will tell !

Given only a peak service I don't see how they could. IC passengers would be more annoyed if they added stops at peak hours to cater for a few. There is not real need for IC to connect. Speed to/from Heuston needs to be priority.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Given only a peak service I don't see how they could. IC passengers would be more annoyed if they added stops at peak hours to cater for a few.

But the vast majority of intercity passengers don't live / work / study across the road from Heuston - they are coming from somewhere else and many people would benefit form the possibility of getting a train from their local station and then a cross-platform change of trains to their destination.

[Jamie2k9]

But the vast majority of intercity passengers don't live / work / study across the road from Heuston - they are coming from somewhere else and many people would benefit form the possibility of getting a train from their local station and then a cross-platform change of trains to their destination.

Yes I'm sure it would, but I don't think it should not come at adding 3 minutes to a service.

It's not as if Heuston badly linked in terms of transport and every single train passenger doesn't need the opportunity to travel via PPT. Stopping all trains at Hazelhatch to connect is madness.

The Luas to Connolly, 145 more less at Tara and Pearse St.

What is the problem with transferring from IC to Commuter to Commuter/DART over IC, to Bus or Luas, to DART etc The actual time difference is minutes.

Also bear in mind it's the first set of services, I'm sure if there is a genuine case for such travel then they can more less swap/alter and operate hourly PPT to Portlaoise and maintain Heuston-Portlaoise with Cork/Limerick and shuttles as well next year.

[Inniskeen]

I wouldn't be stopping every service at Hazelhatch but I would certainly consider stopping Intercity services at either Parkwest or Clondalkin (for access to/from the M50 and to get some value from the empty car park and little used station).

Initially it would only make sense to stop services at the morning and evening peaks and then only where convenient connections can be readily created.

[Jamie2k9]

I wouldn't be stopping every service at Hazelhatch but I would certainly consider stopping Intercity services at either Parkwest or Clondalkin (for access to/from the M50 and to get some value from the empty car park and little used station).

Initially it would only make sense to stop services at the morning and evening peaks and then only where convenient connections can be readily created.

Fair enough could be some merit in it however I think it's not an immediate priority. Should just give the service a chance and prehaps review when there is an actual new schedule from Heuston in place.

[grainne whale]

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

But the vast majority of intercity passengers don't live / work / study across the road from Heuston - they are coming from somewhere else and many people would benefit form the possibility of getting a train from their local station and then a cross-platform change of trains to their destination.

Actually there are a large no of people who find that Heuston is the best station for them : HSE, Revenue, Dublin City Council, Courts Service, St James Hospital, students/staff DIT. Trains running to GCD are of no use to them.

[Jamie2k9]

Phoenix Park Tunnel services

Seven new morning peak trains to Grand Canal Dock, and eight new evening peak trains from Grand Canal Dock begin on Monday 21st November, with limited stop services in the opposite direction:

Morning Peak

06.14 Newbridge to Grand Canal Dock
06.50 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock
07.00 Newbridge to Grand Canal Dock
07.20 Newbridge to Grand Canal Dock
08.10 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock
08.35 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock
09.12 Newbridge to Grand Canal Dock


07.25 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch*
07.49 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch*
08.10 Grand Canal Dock to Newbridge*


Evening peak

16.20 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch
16.40 Grand Canal Dock to Newbridge
17.00 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch
17.28 Grand Canal Dock to Newbridge
17.58 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch
18.16 Grand Canal Dock to Newbridge
18.40 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch
19.13 Grand Canal Dock to Hazelhatch


15.10 Newbridge to Grand Canal Dock*
15.55 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock*
17.00 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock*
17.25 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock*
17.55 Hazelhatch to Grand Canal Dock*
17.57 Newbridge to Grand Canal Dock*

These services will serve all stations between Newbridge/Hazelhatch and Parkwest; and Drumcondra, Connolly, Tara Street, Pearse and Grand Canal Dock, except those marked * which will serve limited stops – search the journey planner above for exact times. They will not serve Heuston Station – customers for Heuston should use existing trains between Newbridge/Hazelhatch and Heuston Station.

Services will also ensure connections at Hazelhatch/Newbridge for customers travelling on longer distance commuter services to/from stations such as Kildare, Portlaoise and others.

The new services give a new direct public transport connection between stations in south-west Dublin and north Kildare and the central business district between Connolly and Grand Canal Dock.

This is the first phase of services to operate via the Phoenix Park Tunnel. Iarnród Éireann and the National Transport Authority plan to expand services in the future to include off-peak and weekend services.

________

Commuter services

06.40 Heuston to Newbridge advanced to 06.35
08.30 Heuston to Portlaoise advanced to 08.25
17.20 Heuston to Portlaoise deferred to 17.28
17.55 Heuston to Newbridge cancelled
18.10 Heuston to Portlaoise advanced to 18.05 and calls additionally at Parkwest and Clondalkin Fonthill
18.55 Heuston to Portlaoise deferred to 19.05hrs
06.25 Portlaoise to Heuston operates 2 to 3 minutes earlier from Monasterevin onwards
06.30 Carlow to Heuston operates 2 to 4 minutes later from Newbridge onwards
07.20 Portlaoise to Heuston advanced to 07.17
19.30 Portlaoise to Heuston advanced to 19.17

Intercity services

18.00 and 19.00 Heuston to Cork: minor revisions to times at intermediate stations
06.45 Cork to Tralee advanced to 06.20
07.00 Tralee to Heuston deferred to 07.05
19.00 Ballybrophy to Limerick deferred to 19.05
19.38 Limerick Junction to Limerick deferred to 19.40
20.45 Limerick Junction to Limerick deferred to 20.47
06.05 Waterford to Heuston advanced to 06.00
09.25 Heuston to Galway additional stop at Oranmore
17.20 Galway to Heuston additional stops at Kildare and Newbridge

http://www.irishrail.ie/news/phoenixparktimes
______

Details in link of some customer feedback

[Kilocharlie]

20. PPT fares queries.

ADDRESSED: Travel to/from Drumcondra to GCD from stations on Heuston corridor will be within existing fare structures, with Leap fares distance based, and for cash Drumcondra to GCD treated as "city-centre add-on" as currently occurs with Luas services.

Looks like:
Leap - use new fares table
Cash - use city centre add-on fare

No info yet on Taxsaver P2P but, probably P2P + City Centre add-on at €430 per annum.