Scoping study published - insufficient funds for Navan

[Navan Junction]

Bingo.

Now apply that to every project in T21 and now you have the problem

It wasn't the boot into Navan. It was the boot into Transport 21

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Navan Junction

Bingo.

Now apply that to every project in T21 and now you have the problem

It wasn't the boot into Navan. It was the boot into Transport 21

Tom Finn only looked after IE projects within T21. So lets not concern ourselves with the bigger picture for now.I guess your crapping yourself in case Finn lost his job over Navan. If he did (and it looks like that according to media reports) then the Navan project is well and truly shrouded in political muck. IEs statement on the matter, which ran in yesterdays Sunday Indo, is yet more evidence. It reads like a DOT rep stood over Barry Kennys head with a gun. Here it is in all its glory.

Iarnrod Eireann's scoping study and our presentation to Meath County Council, both stated that the Navan to Dunboyne line is economically viable - this is the only criteria that matters when evaluating transport projects, be they rail, road or other public transport.
Iarnrod Eireann's study therefore supports the development of the Navan line. The key issue for all such projects is that the economic benefits - in terms of time saving for citizens, reduced congestion, environmental benefits and reduced road accidents amongst others - justify the investment.
Our consultants report clearly states that the Navan rail line development meets and exceeds the Department of Finance's criteria in this regard, and that it is an economically viable project, as advised to Meath County Council last week.
As stated to the council at last weeks meeting, Iarnrod Eireann intends to progress this Transport 21 project with the Department of Transport and to develop the full preliminary design and business case in accordance with the processes for new capital projects.

Finn wasn't available for comment and was said to be on annual leave.

Now most here know that I am a huge advocater of the Navan line. I havent changed my mind. But if it becomes a political hot potatoe, I believe that it can turn into another WRC. Its just another symptom of political interference screwing up the order and merit of rail projects. If that continues to gain momentum, then Navan will develop many enemies. Remember its getting a new motorway. Combined with a railway, we could be looking at a total investment of nearly 1 billion on what is a very short corridor. If that even remotely looks like happening at the expense of another project in the GDA, then there may be a public backlash. We need more clarity from Government and not empty statements. The Tom Finn situation is very alarming. He may know more than we give him credit for and he may have paid the price.

[Colm Moore]

Minister was in Navan today, launching a bus service that started on 16December 2007. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055201420

Originally Posted by Navan Junction

Now apply that to every project in T21 and now you have the problem

Or the solution.

[Navan Junction]

Bus Éireann Launches New Direct Service Linking
Navan, Dublin Airport & DCU under Transport 21

Monday January 21st 2008

Bus Éireann will today launch the first new service in the Eastern region under Transport 21 – the new 109A service connection Navan with Dublin Airport and Dublin City University.

The new service will be officially launched by Transport Minister Noel Dempsey TD and Bus Éireann Chief Executive, Tim Hayes at the Newgrange Hotel, Navan at 14.30hrs.

The service operates hourly in both directions with a total of 34 daily departures seven days a week.

Bus Éireann spokesperson Erica Roseingrave said: “Under Transport 21, Bus Éireann is introducing around 235 new vehicles into the fleet. These new vehicles will enable us to improve existing services for our customers, and to introduce new services, such as this one for which there is strong local demand.”

The service provides a direct and frequent connection between Navan, Ratoath, Dunshaughlin, Dublin Airport and DCU.

She stated: “By providing a direct and frequent link between Dublin Airport and Navan, the new service will broaden access to historic Co Meath and open it up to new tourism opportunities. It will improve practical access for students to DCU, making going to College easier and more affordable. For commuters, working in the College or Airport campus, it means they can now reduce their carbon footprint by availing of public transport to get to and from their workplace. Holiday makers can leave their cars at home and take the green option to the airport and in doing so, avoid parking charges.”


She added: “So far, take-up of the service has been very good. It has proved popular with people going to the airport, whether to catch flights or for work (approximately 4,000 people work on the airport campus) as well as students going to college. A direct, frequent and affordable service like this encourages people to leave their cars at home and get onto public transport, which is our main aim.”

The earliest service from Navan departs at 05.00hrs with departures operating until 21.00hrs. Services from Dublin Airport to Navan operate from 06.20hrs until 22.20hrs.


The service is operated by new, high specification, wheelchair accessible single deck commuter coaches, which have been introduced into the Bus Éireann fleet under Transport 21.


Fares from Navan to Dublin Airport/DCU Fares are as follows:

Adult Single/Return €10.30/€13.70
Student Single/Day Return €8.10/ €13.10


A host of new and improved services will be introduced by Bus Éireann in Co Meath this year. Service improvements due in 2008 include:

• A new 15 minute all day frequency on the 109 Navan Dunshaughlin Dublin route
• A range of service improvements for Ratoath, Ashbourne and Duleek
• Expansion of the Navan - Drogheda service to serve Trim, with more daily services.
• Timetable improvements on the Athboy, Trim Dublin service, including additional later services.

[Navan Junction]

This weeks Meath Chronicle

Wrong route with railway

(Editor, Meath Chronicle)

Dear sirs - So a senior Iarnrod Eireann manager has been removed from his post following his expressions of concern around the financial viability of reopening the railway from Pace to Navan (Meath Chronicle 19th Jan). Surely the real question however is why the group tasked with producing this report failed to recommend a route which could add in excess of 60 per cent to the catchment population of the line and so increase its viability. I`m speaking of the area to the east of the original alignment in South Meath, in particular the towns of Ratoath and Ashbourne. The combined population of these towns in the 2006 census was 15,777 persons in comparison to the 24,851 of Navan. With all public transport projects one of the primary concerns to the Department of Finance is not only the initial capital cost but the ongoing subvention levels required. In order to minimise that subvention it is necessary to maximise the railway`s catchment. If the railway is not to serve this area then it is difficult to see how it can be justified. Indeed a cheaper and more expedient solution using the freight-only branch from Drogheda should perhaps be re-examined.

Yours,
Mark Healy,
Alderbrook Heath,
Ashbourne.

[Navan Junction]

Originally Posted by Meath Chronicle

Indeed a cheaper and more expedient solution using the freight-only branch from Drogheda

Who knows, might well come back to this at some point

But god knows IÉ are no more interested in this than the direct option

[Mark Gleeson]

As the reported showed demand from Navan is very sensitive extra 10 minutes would seriously impact numbers

The 55+ million extra of course kills it as there isnt enough for the direct route anyway

[Navan Junction]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

As the reported showed demand from Navan is very sensitive extra 10 minutes would seriously impact numbers

The 55+ million extra of course kills it as there isnt enough for the direct route anyway

BTW, that €55m was only to bring it into Dunshaughlin, not over to Ashbourne

[Derek Wheeler]

And that is down to the voters of the county. It's good sport debating whether he will or will not deliver, but at the end of the day he'll do what he has to do, and political form says polticians do no more than they have to.

That in itself is dangerous and can be attributed to many millions wasted/mis-spent over the years.

It just depends on what the commuters in Meath are prepared to settle for. The Blanch N3/M50 interchange will solve the problem of today, but one thing we know is that nature hates a vacuum and commuting patterns will change to eat that capacity up as quickly as possible.

You're right. But it will take many years to clog up the new N3/M50 interchange (construction starts next week) so how about we leave Navan's railway until say....2030? You can bet that what the current Government are thinking.

Fundamentally, what is wrong with the N3 Meath situation is that despite being the busiest bus corridor in Ireland, it is still basically a public transport wasteland.

Because of poorly planned residential development, that's rampant all over Ireland. Navan is by no means special.

The M50 upgrade will ease conjestion in the short term, but traffic volumes on the M50 will result in traffic cascading back onto the N3 again in the not too distant future after it opens, and traffic will continue to grow on the N3, partially from the return of all of the Navan/Kells/north Meath commuters that go on a mystery tour cross country to the N2 at the moment and partially through growth.

Either way, the railway has a future in Meath. We can take a snapshot of the day that the M50 upgrade is completed and the M3 opens. Of course everyone will think life is good on that day and for while after it.

But that changes, it always does when it comes to the bottlenecks around Dublin. Capacity won't last for long where the M50 and it's approaches are concerned.

It's not down to Dempsey whether this happens. It will happen because it has to happen. The question is when, and whether it is Dempsey that delivers it, or some other politician

That again is down to the people of Meath

I've one answer to all that.

2030

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Victor

Minister was in Navan today, launching a bus service that started on 16December 2007. http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showt...p?t=2055201420

Or the solution.

Yeah. The solution to the problem. But that cannot and will not happen without an independent non politically affiliated transport authority for the GDA.

[Navan Junction]

Olivia Kelly, Irish Times, Tue, Jan 22, 2008

An Bord Pleanála has refused permission for an industrial estate beside the new M3 motorway near Dunboyne, Co Meath, on the grounds that it would damage plans for the Dublin-Meath rail link and constitute an "unsustainable car dependent development".

Meath county councillors last June voted unanimously to rezone the land for the 42-acre industrial /business estate, in contravention of their own development plan. The application for 32 offices, light industrial and warehousing units by Royal Gateway Holding Ltd, was subsequently granted planning permission by the council but was appealed by An Taisce to An Bord Pleanála.

In its ruling, the board said that the development contravened both national and regional policies and was contrary to proper planning and sustainable development of the area.

The development site was 1km north of a proposed railway station and park-and-ride facility and would be "prejudicial" to the development of a plan for the use of the land surrounding the major rail project. The site would be accessed by a link road to the M3 which forms an "integral part of the regional road and motorway system".

Additional traffic caused by the development would "interfere with the free-flow of traffic and the carrying capacity" of the road and thus "fail to protect public investment in the national road network", the planning board said.

"It is considered that the proposed development, which would be principally dependent on private car, would lead to the creation of an unsustainable car dependent development."

© 2008 The Irish Times

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Navan Junction

An Bord Pleanála has refused permission ..... Dunboyne, Co Meath .... rail link ...

I shouldn't speed read.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Whilst its nice to go on holidays in January you do have to be careful about letting cats out of bags. Maybe I'm cynical. The realpolitik is simple: keep dangling this Carrott, keep flogging this horse for all its worth - there are local elections to be won. Never mind the amazing political capital that can be bought where and when it really matters - in the FF parlimentary party rooms in Kildare Street when Bertie throws in the towel or is knifed in the back. Meath may get some coinage, Dempsey may become relativly important again.

I was wondering, though, at a billion euro between a road and a rail link to Navan, surely it is cheaper to bring the Dubs back home, say relocate them in Adamstown?

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

I was wondering, though, at a billion euro between a road and a rail link to Navan, surely it is cheaper to bring the Dubs back home, say relocate them in Adamstown?

Sounds good alright. And probably cheaper.

[philip]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

I was wondering, though, at a billion euro between a road and a rail link to Navan, surely it is cheaper to bring the Dubs back home, say relocate them in Adamstown?

Irrespective of the billion squids....it's scandalous that we're still allowing the sprawl out to places like Navan when big gaps exist in Dublin such as at Clonburris. If only other local authorities would follow South Dublin's lead. That website is way ahead of everyone else and you know something....SDCC follow through on their 'masterplans' and do their best wrt. public transport integration. There are miles and miles of unused and rarely used QBC (not just buslane) in South Dublin. The council has built it.....where are the buses?