Bord Snip Transport cuts

[namloc]

The Bord Snip Nua has identified some cuts in the transport budget. €55m from 'operational efficencies among CIE companies' Report Any thoughts on what this would entail??

They suggest lightly-ued rail lines should be closed and replaced by bus and they also recommend ceasing further development of the WRC.

Any thoughts?

[drumcondra commuter]

Originally Posted by namloc

Any thoughts?

The McCarthy report recommends these and suggests these savings, wait for the slow and quiet backing away from anything too controversial in the next two weeks. You can almost hear the gears of lobbying grinding.....

[namloc]

I see that the rail lines ear marked to be axed are Limerick Junction-Rosslare, Limerick-Ballybrophy & Manulla-Ballina. As you say there'll be alot of people keeping their heads down and distancing themselves from these proposed cuts.

[ThomasJ]

from the report

The Department of Transport's 2009 current expenditure allocation for Public Transport is €342m,
which is primarily spent to support non-commercial bus and rail services. The Special Group is
recommending total savings of €68m a year for this Programme.
The Exchequer current allocation to CIÉ for the provision of non-commercial public transport
services (PSO payments) has already been reduced in 2009 by €10m (3%). This reduction is on the
back of a number of years where the allocation was held level (a reduction in real terms) and also is
in addition to the ending of a fuel excise rebate scheme which was worth about €20m annually to
CIE. The impact of this can be seen already in the recently announced programme of cost-cutting
measures by Dublin Bus and the review of operations, services and routes by Bus Eireann. The
Group is of the view that this cost-cutting programme can be more extensive and recommends that
over the next three years the company focuses on reducing its annual operation costs of €1bn to
allow it to pass on €55m in full year savings to the Exchequer by means of reduced PSO payments.

Table 17.6 Transport - Measures identified for Programme C
Annual savings
C.1 Operational efficiencies among CIÉ companies €55.0m
C.2 Cease funding the Rural Transport Scheme €11.0m
C.3 Discontinue the Green Schools Initiative €2.0m
Total Current Savings €68.0m

C.1 Operational efficiencies among CIE companies
The Group is concerned by the overall upward trend in the level of public service payments per
passenger journey although it notes that Irish Rail has achieved a small reduction (Irish Rail still
has the highest PSO payment per passenger journey of the three CIÉ transport companies). This
indicates poor service delivery. Accordingly, the Group recommends a scheme of targeted
reductions to services across all three CIÉ companies, focused in the first instance on off-peak, low
patronage services.
As part of this undertaking, the Department of Transport and CIÉ should jointly review the
application of PSO payments to low patronage transport routes and explore how such payments can
be best targeted/applied to provide the most economical service levels that meet customer needs and
demand patterns. For example, lightly used rail lines should be closed and replacement bus services
provided. It is more than likely that more regular and reliable bus services could be provided on
such corridors at less cost to the Exchequer.
Among the most lightly used rail lines that should be
examined in this light include:
- Limerick Junction to Rosslare
- Limerick to Ballybrophy;
- Manulla Junction to Ballina.

In addition, the Group recommends that there should be no further development of the Western Rail
Corridor.
Overall, the Group targets a significant reduction of costs at CIÉ which would lead to savings of
€55m in the PSO payment.

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by drumcondra commuter

The McCarthy report recommends these and suggests these savings, wait for the slow and quiet backing away from anything too controversial in the next two weeks. You can almost hear the gears of lobbying grinding.....

It's called democracy! If you want to see all the lightly used railways closed why don't you form a lobby group yourself and start lobbying - there are plenty here and on Boards.ie that will support you.

[Traincustomer]

Hopefully the people who want these lines closed realise that they could in effect be biting the hand that feeds them, maybe not immediately but in decades to come. If too much in this country becomes dictated by pure economics and the social need provision/aspect in transport, education, health etc...starts going totally out the window then the majority of us are going to significantly feel the pain in future years. Savings are indeed needed but they need to be balanced and thought out against a long-term perspective. It's easy to say close this close that - like Garda Stations for instance. But what will the effects be in future years - greatly increased crime will affect us all.

[on the move]

Close garda stations, at a time where crime is more rampant than ever before. Only in Ireland would such things be allowed to happen.

How many murders are there in the state every week?

I take it the rest of the country will be forced into hibernation for the next few lines, with rail and bus routes closed.

The government's solution? The Lisbon Treaty. Apparantly all our ills will be cured, if we bend over for them next October. Despite yesterday's measures that are designed to last at least 5 years.

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by on the move

Close garda stations, at a time where crime is more rampant than ever before. Only in Ireland would such things be allowed to happen.

How many murders are there in the state every week?

I take it the rest of the country will be forced into hibernation for the next few lines, with rail and bus routes closed.

The government's solution? The Lisbon Treaty. Apparantly all our ills will be cured, if we bend over for them next October. Despite yesterday's measures that are designed to last at least 5 years.

No - worse still - only in Ireland would such a stupid suggestion be made! What would you expect from a bunch of economists - they know the price of everything and the value of nothing.

[Mark Hennessy]

I'd love to see in detail what these "efficiencies" in CIE are?

Pay cuts for all management would be one efficiency I can think of.

Say 25% cuts for management straight away, with the potential to make back 15% in bonuses if they meet targets for carrying passengers.

It's much easier for the top brass just to cut services and justify their positions by "making tough decisions", that is how this country works.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by on the move

Close garda stations, at a time where crime is more rampant than ever before. Only in Ireland would such things be allowed to happen.

Do we want gardaÃ* manning rural stations where nothing happens or actually out patrolling?

[on the move]

We live in a violent society, the Gardai need all the resources both out on the beat and in the office, to make the country as safe as it can be.

Closing garda stations is an invitation for every criminal in the affected area to run amok. Making savings doesn't compensate social disorder.

[dowlingm]

Has the Taoiseach-in-waiting taken a position on cuts to North Mayo rail yet?

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Has the Taoiseach-in-waiting taken a position on cuts to North Mayo rail yet?

Ha,ha,ha - didn't know it April Fools Day?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Has the Taoiseach-in-waiting taken a position on cuts to North Mayo rail yet?

Huh? Wasn't that closed as part of T21? http://www.transport.ie/upload/general/7048-7.pdf

Note how phase 2 is now Athenry-Tuam, not Claremorris-Collooney. http://www.transport21.ie/Maps/Trans..._Corridor.html

[comcor]

In the absence of a road bridge, how do they propose to replace the Rosslare-Waterford line with a bus replacement?

[Thomas Ralph]

It's only one train each way a day with minimal ridership; anyone going from Waterford to Wexford or Rosslare can go via New Ross.

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

It's only one train each way a day with minimal ridership; anyone going from Waterford to Wexford or Rosslare can go via New Ross.

Obviously written by somebody who has not travelled on the line! The train is used in the main by school/college students and workers along the South Wexford line (Wellington Bridge, Campile etc) travelling to and from Waterford and a replacement bus service would not serve their needs adequately. The line must be retained as an important link to Rosslare Harbour and will come back into its own when foot passengers inevitably return to the ferries.

[comcor]

You'd think that with things so much cheaper at the moment Irish Rail might be advertising day returns from Waterford to Fishguard to take advantage.

Then you realise they can't even offer you a timetable providing a day return to Rosslare!


The thing is, I can remember a time when the Cork-Cobh line was written off. It was only kept open because freight to the NET plant at Marino Point was using it anyway, so a few passenger services couldn't be that much harm. 25 years later with a proper timetable (and admittedly some good work from Cork County Council in terms of zoning land along it) and it's a success that happily runs even though NET is long closed.

Has anyone ever looked at the line in South Wexford and tried to see what timetable would suit it? Tried to work with Wexford Co Co to get extra land zoned for housing near the various stations? Without any will, is it any wonder it's up for closure. And the will has to come from irish Rail as much as it has to come from the local authorities and local politicians.

With any of the rail lines slated for closure, they should first be offered to private interests (whether commercial companies, community co-operatives, even the RPSI for use as a heritage line, while maintaining some service to the communities on it) to see if they can make a go of them before just being shut down.

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by comcor

You'd think that with things so much cheaper at the moment Irish Rail might be advertising day returns from Waterford to Fishguard to take advantage.

Then you realise they can't even offer you a timetable providing a day return to Rosslare!


The thing is, I can remember a time when the Cork-Cobh line was written off. It was only kept open because freight to the NET plant at Marino Point was using it anyway, so a few passenger services couldn't be that much harm. 25 years later with a proper timetable (and admittedly some good work from Cork County Council in terms of zoning land along it) and it's a success that happily runs even though NET is long closed.

Has anyone ever looked at the line in South Wexford and tried to see what timetable would suit it? Tried to work with Wexford Co Co to get extra land zoned for housing near the various stations? Without any will, is it any wonder it's up for closure. And the will has to come from irish Rail as much as it has to come from the local authorities and local politicians.

With any of the rail lines slated for closure, they should first be offered to private interests (whether commercial companies, community co-operatives, even the RPSI for use as a heritage line, while maintaining some service to the communities on it) to see if they can make a go of them before just being shut down.

The biggest problem (currently) is that Waterford is suffering a worse jobs crisis than any of the other major urban areas so attracting fresh commuters in the current environment will be tough.

As this line is used regularly by a small but loyal amount and the fact there is a massive times saving whilst using this line over the road route, perhaps IE could trial that hybrid road / rail bus on this line?

Right now fresh ideas are needed, the line with the current passenger numbers in its current guise is not going to last in an environment where teachers are being sacked and social welfare is being cut etc.

That's the political reality in my opinion.

[ThomasJ]

3 rail lines:-

Connolly Gorey/Enniscorthy/Wexford
Heuston Rosslare (via waterford)
Gorey Rosslare - linking the 2 lines

This enables a link that side for Carlow,waterford and other heuston passengers to get to Bray/Gorey/Wexford/rosslare without the need to travel via Dublin and vice versa