WRC - Claremorris - Collooney section. The Final Frontier.

Derek Wheeler · 06-07-2006, 23:17

On another thread on Boards.ie, the debate on the WRC has beat itself to death. I havent created this thread to reignite that debate as that would be yet another futile exercise. The purpose of this particular thread is to concentrate on the section of the WRC from Claremorris to Collooney. While the section from Ennis to Claremorris has been featured in T21, despite a "doctored" report that contradicts it, I think its worth discussing the much loved and adored portion known as the "Burma Road".

Many of us will remember that Eamonn O'Cuiv, stated that this section would be cleared and fenced off to prevent further destruction and prepare it for any planned reopening. While its generally accepted that this stretch will not happen, it is still a bone of contention to campaigners for the reopening of the entire WRC. I accept that Ennis - Athenry has some potential, if deviations are considered. I would also accept that Tuam - Galway could have potential, if the aforemention deviations were considered. As for Tuam - Claremorris, I'd agree with the "original" McCann report, before it was "nobbled" by someone. Overall, I believe that the WRC project has plenty of time on its side and should get in line. But thats a debate thats been done before.

So, today,(at short notice) I was afforded the opportunity to visit Tubbercurry/Tobercurry (depending on which sign you read). This town lies nearly mid way along the WRC, between Claremorris and Collooney. I decided that I just couldn't visit and not meet up with me oul former P11 buddy, Thomas S.(resident in the area.) We've had our differences and will continue to do so, but our shared passion for the development of sensible rail transport in this country is a bond that can't be ignored. We are both of the same mindset in relation to the WRC, but Thomas actually lives beside it and can see and hear local reaction. This is what sets him apart from some posters that disagree with him.

Off we went on a little trip of this section of the WRC, from Swinford to Tubbercurry. We paid a visit to the site of his infamous "photo", where the line has been turned into a driveway. Its not fake, its real. I seen it with my own eyes. Within a short distance of it, there were more examples.(farm yards etc) By the time we got to Charlestown, it was even more scarier. The line crosses the N17 here. While the station has been cleaned up by a FAS scheme, the approach to it has been "landscaped" under at least 3 feet of grass and incorporated into a car dealership. We talked to locals, all of whom thought the plan to reopen this section was daft. During the course of our ramble in Charlestown, we met a former Director of Knock Airport (retired last year). He was extremely critical of the plan to reopen the WRC north of Athenry and of suggestions of building a spur to Knock Airport! He referred to the existing connecting bus to the airport, as the "ghost bus" with an average of 10 users per day. His attitude regarding this particular stretch of the WRC, is that the money would be better spent on health, including the funds earmarked to fence it off. His reference to the campaigners is too insulting to post including their "protest" that had no more than 20 people at it in Charlestown.

Some may not believe what I have said. But this is the reality that has been hidden from the general public. As a representative of P11 and in line with keeping an eye on proposed rail projects, any further campaigning for this particular section of the WRC is nothing but fantasy. Even the Government didn't ignore this fact and thats why it didn't make T21. But campaigners for the WRC wanted this section prioritised. It won't work and will never work. The line is like a roller coaster. It follows every hill that the N17 follows. Go look at it for yourselves. Its the only way to fully appreciate how bonkers it is.

sean · 06-07-2006, 23:22

Did you get pics?

Thomas J Stamp · 07-07-2006, 09:30

I thought Thomas S had gone on holidays!!! As Derek says the debate on boardfs on this is for all intents and purposes over and I posted what the P11 policy is and that basicly boils down to that phase one will open, fair enough, it'll shift an apprecable amoutnof people, the rest is off of a John Hynde postcard. What Derek has done and what Thomas S has been doing on boards is the most credible endoresement of our position - they have actually gone and looked at it. When it is built and when there is a lousy service on it the passengers will be more than welcome to come to us about it, because that is what we are here for. The day that it is perfect is the day we will gladly retire.

This last point is one that differenciates P11 from the, erm, trainspotters groups. Believe it or not one poster over on boards has even critisied us for going and looking at the ground where the new LUAS extension will go in South Dublin, for looking at the route of the WRC on the ground and also for comparing then with the Navan rail link. But if we dont passengers are the ones that suffer if a staion is placed in the wrong area, if a house is needlessly demolished or a garden truncated, or if the wrong length of tram is used, there are plenty of others.

Sometimes I think Thomas S. goes ott a bit but he has every right to do so, he is "an independant bigmouth not associated with any group" and I hope he still reads our board but I do understand why he gets so pissed off with UK trainspotters endorsing the entire WRC just because they want an old line reopened while the money for it - €500million dont forget - could re-open Navan or buy a load of commuter railcars and DARTs which helps you, yes you, get home in comfort and at a social hour.

In many cases the "arguments" for the entire WRC come after the desire to open it, when it ought to be the other way around. Just in case any IRN heads wish to debate that point why dont you do what Derek has done, go over there ask the locals, see what they say. At the end of the day the UK trainspotter brigade wont have to pay for this for years into the future, we will.

Derek Wheeler · 07-07-2006, 23:29

Beautifully stated Thomas.

People should go have a look for themselves. Personally I don't want to bull**** everyone with nonsense, thats why I use every opportunity to actually have a look at things on the ground. It makes all the difference and will provide the groundwork to the successors to the existing P11 crew.

A lobby group such as P11 must be armed with the facts and not find itself sitting in an ivory tower repeating what it read in the newspapers. To date, we influence a lot of what is printed in newspapers, including recent stats about the WRC. That stems from knowing whats happening.

While its not the backbone of the organisation, getting out there and having a look is still a very successful function and will serve us well.

Derek Wheeler · 11-07-2006, 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aidan Brosnan

I'll be up beside the rotten built over level crossing infested bit for a wedding in about 4 weeks so if anyone wants a particular photo please let me know.

You know the score Aidan. Just snap away. None of it looks endearing. Every photo is further evidence of why it should never have been in the equation and never will be.

Nigel Fitzgricer · 26-08-2006, 17:04

http://www.oceanfm.ie/onair/sligolei...leid=000003330

Quote:

Government's failure to fund Western Rail 'brazen' Aug 26, 3:22 pm
The Minister for Transport has been accused of bias against the West on Track project by a North West MEP.

According to MEP Senator Jim Higgins, Government investment in the Western Rail Corridor would make 'social and economic sense'.

He's branded the government decision to spend 400 million euro on the Dublin Kildare rail line, and nothing on the western rail corridor, as brazen.

Jister · 26-08-2006, 23:55

"If" the line to Claremorris gets reopened then it "should" be possible to run Ballina - Cork direct, in theory. I haven't looked in detail at a map lately but Ballina is pretty close to Sligo so Ballina-Cork and Sligo-Cork would be similar journey times. I can't see Ballina-Cork having too many problems with overcrowding, can ye?

The point is that its more or less the same concept as the WRC to Sligo and if it (Ballina-Cork) runs well for a few years then look at Sligo-Cork reopening.

I've seen the line too recently, before and after the refencing process and even if Sligo-Claremorris was reopened then an entire new line should be built as far as Claremorris, possibly going through Knock airport assuming its reasonably direct. Again I haven't looked at a map lately, so I am not sure if it is.

Mark Gleeson · 27-08-2006, 00:10

Knock airport be on a hill, there is no case to serve Knock anyway

North of Tuam is off permanently, thank god, I'd love to see the engineering opinion on the line it would possibly be cheaper to build a totally new straight and flat line

And the 300 odd million price tag doesn't even come close to the real cost to reopen, thats base line restoration as in 60 mph and you will be lucky, we saw what happened in Midleton every level crossing possible was closed and bridged. Even if the go ahead was given to open the whole thing it would be years before they got through the legal process to start.

Thw crew in the west will cry bias but fact is its there own fault by not getting the planning sorted out

PaulM · 28-08-2006, 16:32

Isn't it great that if you do anything that doesn't benefit the West you are 'biased'. What other low handed tactics do they go to.

Like people have posted before, perhaps the West should fund it themselves, with their tax money.

colmoc · 29-08-2006, 13:20

sure why dont we open the killarney- caherciveen/valentia route while we are at it. there would probably be more people on it than the "Burma Road" with all the american tourists that would line up to take the scenic train route.

Biased against the west?? local politics in this country???????????

John. · 29-08-2006, 18:52

Wow! "Bias". Now THERE'S an original word............... Jim Higgins' attitude is so typically Irish. Somebody dares to rock his boat, so he resorts to lame verbal shape throwing. I'm surprised he didn't use embarrasingly hackneyed Irish chestnuts like "Begrudgery" and "Jealousy", while he was at it.......

Thomas J Stamp · 29-08-2006, 20:45

06-07-2006, 23:17	#1
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	WRC - Claremorris - Collooney section. The Final Frontier. On another thread on Boards.ie, the debate on the WRC has beat itself to death. I havent created this thread to reignite that debate as that would be yet another futile exercise. The purpose of this particular thread is to concentrate on the section of the WRC from Claremorris to Collooney. While the section from Ennis to Claremorris has been featured in T21, despite a "doctored" report that contradicts it, I think its worth discussing the much loved and adored portion known as the "Burma Road". Many of us will remember that Eamonn O'Cuiv, stated that this section would be cleared and fenced off to prevent further destruction and prepare it for any planned reopening. While its generally accepted that this stretch will not happen, it is still a bone of contention to campaigners for the reopening of the entire WRC. I accept that Ennis - Athenry has some potential, if deviations are considered. I would also accept that Tuam - Galway could have potential, if the aforemention deviations were considered. As for Tuam - Claremorris, I'd agree with the "original" McCann report, before it was "nobbled" by someone. Overall, I believe that the WRC project has plenty of time on its side and should get in line. But thats a debate thats been done before. So, today,(at short notice) I was afforded the opportunity to visit Tubbercurry/Tobercurry (depending on which sign you read). This town lies nearly mid way along the WRC, between Claremorris and Collooney. I decided that I just couldn't visit and not meet up with me oul former P11 buddy, Thomas S.(resident in the area.) We've had our differences and will continue to do so, but our shared passion for the development of sensible rail transport in this country is a bond that can't be ignored. We are both of the same mindset in relation to the WRC, but Thomas actually lives beside it and can see and hear local reaction. This is what sets him apart from some posters that disagree with him. Off we went on a little trip of this section of the WRC, from Swinford to Tubbercurry. We paid a visit to the site of his infamous "photo", where the line has been turned into a driveway. Its not fake, its real. I seen it with my own eyes. Within a short distance of it, there were more examples.(farm yards etc) By the time we got to Charlestown, it was even more scarier. The line crosses the N17 here. While the station has been cleaned up by a FAS scheme, the approach to it has been "landscaped" under at least 3 feet of grass and incorporated into a car dealership. We talked to locals, all of whom thought the plan to reopen this section was daft. During the course of our ramble in Charlestown, we met a former Director of Knock Airport (retired last year). He was extremely critical of the plan to reopen the WRC north of Athenry and of suggestions of building a spur to Knock Airport! He referred to the existing connecting bus to the airport, as the "ghost bus" with an average of 10 users per day. His attitude regarding this particular stretch of the WRC, is that the money would be better spent on health, including the funds earmarked to fence it off. His reference to the campaigners is too insulting to post including their "protest" that had no more than 20 people at it in Charlestown. Some may not believe what I have said. But this is the reality that has been hidden from the general public. As a representative of P11 and in line with keeping an eye on proposed rail projects, any further campaigning for this particular section of the WRC is nothing but fantasy. Even the Government didn't ignore this fact and thats why it didn't make T21. But campaigners for the WRC wanted this section prioritised. It won't work and will never work. The line is like a roller coaster. It follows every hill that the N17 follows. Go look at it for yourselves. Its the only way to fully appreciate how bonkers it is.

07-07-2006, 09:30	#3
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	I thought Thomas S had gone on holidays!!! As Derek says the debate on boardfs on this is for all intents and purposes over and I posted what the P11 policy is and that basicly boils down to that phase one will open, fair enough, it'll shift an apprecable amoutnof people, the rest is off of a John Hynde postcard. What Derek has done and what Thomas S has been doing on boards is the most credible endoresement of our position - they have actually gone and looked at it. When it is built and when there is a lousy service on it the passengers will be more than welcome to come to us about it, because that is what we are here for. The day that it is perfect is the day we will gladly retire. This last point is one that differenciates P11 from the, erm, trainspotters groups. Believe it or not one poster over on boards has even critisied us for going and looking at the ground where the new LUAS extension will go in South Dublin, for looking at the route of the WRC on the ground and also for comparing then with the Navan rail link. But if we dont passengers are the ones that suffer if a staion is placed in the wrong area, if a house is needlessly demolished or a garden truncated, or if the wrong length of tram is used, there are plenty of others. Sometimes I think Thomas S. goes ott a bit but he has every right to do so, he is "an independant bigmouth not associated with any group" and I hope he still reads our board but I do understand why he gets so pissed off with UK trainspotters endorsing the entire WRC just because they want an old line reopened while the money for it - €500million dont forget - could re-open Navan or buy a load of commuter railcars and DARTs which helps you, yes you, get home in comfort and at a social hour. In many cases the "arguments" for the entire WRC come after the desire to open it, when it ought to be the other way around. Just in case any IRN heads wish to debate that point why dont you do what Derek has done, go over there ask the locals, see what they say. At the end of the day the UK trainspotter brigade wont have to pay for this for years into the future, we will. __________________ We are the passengers

27-08-2006, 00:10	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Knock airport be on a hill, there is no case to serve Knock anyway North of Tuam is off permanently, thank god, I'd love to see the engineering opinion on the line it would possibly be cheaper to build a totally new straight and flat line And the 300 odd million price tag doesn't even come close to the real cost to reopen, thats base line restoration as in 60 mph and you will be lucky, we saw what happened in Midleton every level crossing possible was closed and bridged. Even if the go ahead was given to open the whole thing it would be years before they got through the legal process to start. Thw crew in the west will cry bias but fact is its there own fault by not getting the planning sorted out Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 27-08-2006 at 00:12.

29-08-2006, 20:45	#12
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	. __________________ We are the passengers

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06-07-2006, 23:22	#2
sean Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 707	Did you get pics?

07-07-2006, 23:29	#4
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Beautifully stated Thomas. People should go have a look for themselves. Personally I don't want to bull**** everyone with nonsense, thats why I use every opportunity to actually have a look at things on the ground. It makes all the difference and will provide the groundwork to the successors to the existing P11 crew. A lobby group such as P11 must be armed with the facts and not find itself sitting in an ivory tower repeating what it read in the newspapers. To date, we influence a lot of what is printed in newspapers, including recent stats about the WRC. That stems from knowing whats happening. While its not the backbone of the organisation, getting out there and having a look is still a very successful function and will serve us well.

26-08-2006, 23:55	#7
Jister Member Join Date: May 2006 Posts: 118	"If" the line to Claremorris gets reopened then it "should" be possible to run Ballina - Cork direct, in theory. I haven't looked in detail at a map lately but Ballina is pretty close to Sligo so Ballina-Cork and Sligo-Cork would be similar journey times. I can't see Ballina-Cork having too many problems with overcrowding, can ye? The point is that its more or less the same concept as the WRC to Sligo and if it (Ballina-Cork) runs well for a few years then look at Sligo-Cork reopening. I've seen the line too recently, before and after the refencing process and even if Sligo-Claremorris was reopened then an entire new line should be built as far as Claremorris, possibly going through Knock airport assuming its reasonably direct. Again I haven't looked at a map lately, so I am not sure if it is.

28-08-2006, 16:32	#9
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	Isn't it great that if you do anything that doesn't benefit the West you are 'biased'. What other low handed tactics do they go to. Like people have posted before, perhaps the West should fund it themselves, with their tax money.

29-08-2006, 13:20	#10
colmoc Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 140	sure why dont we open the killarney- caherciveen/valentia route while we are at it. there would probably be more people on it than the "Burma Road" with all the american tourists that would line up to take the scenic train route. Biased against the west?? local politics in this country???????????

29-08-2006, 18:52	#11
John. New to the board Join Date: Aug 2006 Posts: 18	Wow! "Bias". Now THERE'S an original word............... Jim Higgins' attitude is so typically Irish. Somebody dares to rock his boat, so he resorts to lame verbal shape throwing. I'm surprised he didn't use embarrasingly hackneyed Irish chestnuts like "Begrudgery" and "Jealousy", while he was at it.......