Maps anyone?

[Garrett]

Hey there. I'm a bit of a map freak, hence this post. I often wondered why is it so difficult to find a decent railway map of Ireland? I looked in the resource section of the P11 website but found nothing, although I didn't trawl through all the documents.

What I'm talking about is a collection of maps showing the Ireland railway system as it was, for example, 100, 50, 20, 10 and 5 years ago, as well as present and future plans. Details such as whether the lines are single, double, triple or quadruple-tracked would be nice, as would an indication as to maximum speed limits. The presence of closed/forgotten lines would also be useful.

For someone like me who peaks at the P11 website/forum only occasionally it's always difficult to get an overall picture of the rail situation in Ireland.

Am I making sense? Has this already been discussed?

The best rail map resource I know of so far is Yahoo Maps which uses great data from Navteq:
http://maps.yahoo.com/

[Colm Moore]

This is useful http://www.bueker.net/trainspotting/...es-network.gif

[Garrett]

Thanks Victor, very useful.

I still think that there ia a lack of good maps out there. The old (but soon to be reopened??) Mullingar-Athlone line is not shown on the map you posted for example.

Also, many people forget that Bord na Mona (BNM) have an extremely large network of freight rail throughout the boglands. These railways are, unfortunately, unfit for any passenger lines and usually don't go anywhere useful. However, it's useful to know that IE + RPA aren't the only rail experts in Ireland.

Finally, it's amazing how many tourist railways exist in the UK. I've seen the one around Snowdon in Wales myself. That one is also used by locals to get around sometimes. The only one I know of in Ireland is near Clonmacnoise in Offaly, which is actually a BNM line.

[Garrett]

By the way, one useful site is gmap-pedometer.com. People who like jogging find it very useful. It uses Google Maps, which unfortunately doesn't use the Navteq data, but has good maps of Dublin City. As an example, here is the Heuston-Connolly path of the Luas.

http://www.gmap-pedometer.com/?r=704196

To prove that I am indeed a map freak, I'm attaching an example (PDF) of what could be done (using Yahoo Maps) to show a detailed map of the Irish rail network (or any network for that matter). I didn't finish it cos I actually do get around to having a life every now and then

Make sure you view it at 100% scale.

I never realised how crooked the Sligo line approaching Dublin was until I did this!

[eugene]

Here's one of the best I've found from 1906, the Viceregal commission on Irish Railways

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:M...ion_1906.j pg

Check the section from Tuam to Collooney, the famous WRC. Even then it was listed as a "light rail" line

Sent this onto the WOT crew

Just goes to show how extensive things once were

[comcor]

It's an interesting map. Blow up sections of the areas around Belfast, Cork and Dublin would me nice to see too

I'm sure I'll just depress myself by asking this question, but is there any track-bed left from the Dublin & Blessington or Dublin & Lucan lines?

Let's just hope the WRC people don't see the lines out to Achill, Killala and Ballinrobe...

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by comcor

I'm sure I'll just depress myself by asking this question, but is there any track-bed left from the Dublin & Blessington or Dublin & Lucan lines?

Both were on road tramways.

[losexpectation]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Hey there. I'm a bit of a map freak, hence this post. I often wondered why is it so difficult to find a decent railway map of Ireland? I looked in the resource section of the P11 website but found nothing, although I didn't trawl through all the documents.

or someone like me who peaks at the P11 website/forum only occasionally it's always difficult to get an overall picture of the rail situation in Ireland.

Am I making sense? Has this already been discussed?

The best rail map resource I know of so far is Yahoo Maps which uses great data from Navteq:
http://maps.yahoo.com/

how do you get the rail lines on that?

[TomB]

Originally Posted by Garrett

What I'm talking about is a collection of maps showing the Ireland railway system as it was, for example, 100, 50, 20, 10 and 5 years ago, as well as present and future plans.

Please don't. So much damage to the future of transport infrastructure in this country has been done by Johnson's Railway Gazetteer or whatever it's called. Seriously, those maps are dangerous. Aside from Dublin-Navan (both sides), Cork-Midleton-Youghal and Athlone-Mullingar, the rest of the Victorian lines in this country should stay mothballed. And the old railway maps should be burnt.

On another point, surely this is an infrastructure question and should be moved to the infrastructure section in the members board?

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by losexpectation

how do you get the rail lines on that?

Make sure you use Yahoo.com and not Yahoo.co.uk. Use the broadband (New or Beta edition) and not the dial-up. You should be able to see all the intercity and freight railways.
I'm currently working in California for a few months so maybe it's not possible to access these maps back in Europe??

Thomas, I see your point but I still think it would be nice to have a good collection of maps. Burning maps/history seems like propaganda to me
I'd prefer if everybody was making a case for their own local railway than a complete lack of debate. I don't believe any of us on this board should be deciding what the Irish people should and shouldn't have as a rail network - we discuss and give our opinions, not force them on commuters. Sorry, I'm getting a bit carried away here

The thing is this: if people see the way things were and can compare them with the way things are then I believe people would be more prepared to question the status quo, as in IE, the RPA and the Government's notion of what the future of Irish rail travel should be. We should also be self-critical and add P11 to that list, nobody's perfect. I know those old lines were far from the complexity of today's modern railways, but their existence allows people today to imagine how things could have been.
Looking at a detailed map (e.g. showing single or dual track) of the current railway network allows people to imagine many possibilities such as regional commuter networks. A picture truly is worth a thousand words and is always more effective than a statement from any group. Galway and Cork urban commuter services should look more obvious. People may wonder why bother spending E200 million building the WRC to Sligo - why not just set up a direct train Galway-Athlone-Mullingar-Sligo as soon as Athlone-Mullingar is opened? Why aren't the Sligo and Galway lines double-tracked? Why do we have no electrified intercity lines? The idea behind the availability of good maps is that it allows for lots of questions and ideas to be put forward and sensible solutions to be found. I believe in power to the people and all that malarky, not confining people power to a select minority on a users' board. Oops, I've gone too far again haven't I?

This was initially a general question but I now agree with Thomas that it might now be an infrastructural topic.

I'll shutup now!

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Finally, it's amazing how many tourist railways exist in the UK. I've seen the one around Snowdon in Wales myself. That one is also used by locals to get around sometimes. The only one I know of in Ireland is near Clonmacnoise in Offaly, which is actually a BNM line.

There is a bit of the old Glenties railway line still in existance at Finntown Co Donegal where you can hop on an old train for a bit.
There is also about half a mile of an old diesel railcar in Derry.

Now I'll shut up for fear of being thrown out of P11 for CSPN (crimes supporting the promotion of nostalgia)

[Thomas J Stamp]

oh god, make it stop!!!

the only reason I havent locked this thread or even moved it is because, yes you can get maps for all the lines fairly easily.

Go to Easons O'connell street, go downstairs to the transport section, beside the piller there is a rail sub section, there are two books which contain a detailed map of all the lines (used and unused) in ireland.

Basicly, all the lines were at a peak around 1902, from them smaller branch and exotic lines were closed, mass closures in the 50's and sixties, to what we have today pretty much.

anyway, as said before, we're not a historical society, so if Garrett can pop off to Easons and say he's happy I'll close the thread.

[Garrett]

Okay, Okay, I'll stop!
Anyhows, I finally found what I was looking for on Wikipedia.

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

we're not a historical society

I know, but when it comes to discussing rail transport in Ireland, past, present and future, this is the only website and forum that has it all.

Thanks all for the comments. You can close the thread TJS.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Sorry Garrett, didn't notice your location!!!! Glad you got sorted.