2013 Heuston & Regional Draft Timetable

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

If started from BB or certainly PL then surely that train would deadhead from LTC rather than Limerick as I think the current one does, unless something changed? That would then have to be resolved since you have one fewer train overnighting in Limerick.

The logical extension of a dispatch-from-Portlaoise position would be to dispatch it from Heuston just ahead of the 0625 stopping service.

Heuston dep 0620
Portlaoise dep 0702
Ballybrophy dep 0717
Thurles arr 0735
Thurles dep 0740 (existing diagram as per 2013 draft)
L Jct dep 0807
Limerick arr 0835

Now you have a business service and a commuter service in one train.

Definitely one of those times you wish IE was FOIable to see who asked for that to happen.

only thing is that the thurles commuter train is a 28k and not a 22k so couldnt be from LTC, as in theory it is a waste of a intercity railcar.

that said, how does this new timetable utilise the 22k fleet? I think with the extra services dotted about that the 22k fleet will now be maxed out.

we will have 22k everywhere out of heuston (same as now, ok but more of them) and 28k running out of cork and limerick.

is there any displacement of 29k or are the 22k being used to bolster as opposed to replace those services connolly side?

[dowlingm]

Well, the two last sets have yet to come on board and the Nenagh 22K is no longer required so maybe there's scope to find one. I think if you're looking at extending north of Thurles it would be madness not to use equipment that can use the trackage while at the same time extending the deadhead. Assuming that a 22K could shave off a couple of minutes from the Thurles-Limerick Junction-Limerick schedule compared to the 28 then you could add a Templemore stop to that outlined in my previous post.

There might be some implications once you hit Limerick since it looks like that equipment may link onto an Ennis commuter rather than a Galway intercity but as usual where there's a will there's a way.

[Jamie2k9]

Shortage of ICR's is not a problem it just the current way they are rostered that can case a shortage of sorts.

Only issue that may come with ICR in the future is how many Cork services they may take over if any. As far as I know one ICR is still currently replacing a Mark 4 set weather that will change in Jan is the question as the services being replaced by ICR seres most stops to Cork and with this reducing Jan it could change.

[dowlingm]

The problem with the Mk4 is that IE will ONLY use them Dublin-Cork, so then if they exceed capacity they are parked and 22Ks used where they could be elsewhere. Maybe some thought should be given to deploying one or more on peak services elsewhere. Given the looming DD refurb one might even consider making a difficulty into an opportunity, with a slight rewiring to the DVTs.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Well, the two last sets have yet to come on board and the Nenagh 22K is no longer required so maybe there's scope to find one. I think if you're looking at extending north of Thurles it would be madness not to use equipment that can use the trackage while at the same time extending the deadhead. Assuming that a 22K could shave off a couple of minutes from the Thurles-Limerick Junction-Limerick schedule compared to the 28 then you could add a Templemore stop to that outlined in my previous post.

There might be some implications once you hit Limerick since it looks like that equipment may link onto an Ennis commuter rather than a Galway intercity but as usual where there's a will there's a way.

i think the 22k taken from limerick is going to galway/westport/athlone

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Shortage of ICR's is not a problem it just the current way they are rostered that can case a shortage of sorts.

Only issue that may come with ICR in the future is how many Cork services they may take over if any. As far as I know one ICR is still currently replacing a Mark 4 set weather that will change in Jan is the question as the services being replaced by ICR seres most stops to Cork and with this reducing Jan it could change.

I dont think this will happen, as the idea is that the Cork Route is a brand, and it is only with cost cutting that they use 22ks. this may stop now with the new schedule.

Originally Posted by dowlingm

The problem with the Mk4 is that IE will ONLY use them Dublin-Cork, so then if they exceed capacity they are parked and 22Ks used where they could be elsewhere. Maybe some thought should be given to deploying one or more on peak services elsewhere. Given the looming DD refurb one might even consider making a difficulty into an opportunity, with a slight rewiring to the DVTs.

I believe that the 22k's only are used on predictably low usage services, or in dire emergencies.

[Jamie2k9]

I don't think this will happen, as the idea is that the Cork Route is a brand, and it is only with cost cutting that they use 22ks. this may stop now with the new schedule.

I think it will happen, it just depends how IE justify demand for a Cork service to be a Mark 4. I was on the 14.00 to Cork and currently on the 18.30 and a 3 car set could operate the service with no capacity problems.

2h35m for most services I also think this is being a little to optimistic.

[Mark Gleeson]

2:35 with 4 stops is easy, even before all the work at Limerick Junction, Ballybrophy, Lisduff and Portalington and the extra 40-50 miles of 100mph, 2:30 for 4 stops was doable.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

I think it will happen, it just depends how IE justify demand for a Cork service to be a Mark 4. I was on the 14.00 to Cork and currently on the 18.30 and a 3 car set could operate the service with no capacity problems.

2h35m for most services I also think this is being a little to optimistic.

From my experience the bulk of the Cork service could be operated with 3 car ICRs apart. Busiest services appear to be morning and mid-morning inbound to Dublin and afternoon and early evening outbound. Even on the busier services it it relatively rare for loadings to exceed the 200 mark other than perhaps on a Friday [mainly Kerry traffic] or when there is a special event attracting additional traffic. A four car ICR would be entirely adequate for most services especially with the reduced stopping patterns in the new TT.

[Thomas Ralph]

Which four-car ICR do you have in mind?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

From my experience the bulk of the Cork service could be operated with 3 car ICRs apart. Busiest services appear to be morning and mid-morning inbound to Dublin and afternoon and early evening outbound. Even on the busier services it it relatively rare for loadings to exceed the 200 mark other than perhaps on a Friday [mainly Kerry traffic] or when there is a special event attracting additional traffic. A four car ICR would be entirely adequate for most services especially with the reduced stopping patterns in the new TT.

Cork-Dublin services can be very tidal, depending on whether their is a connection with Tralee (every second train) and Limerick trains (most trains, except at rush hour).

[Thomas J Stamp]

the notion that IE are going to wholescale scrap/mothball their almost new mark 4 fleet and replace them with a vastly inferior product in the form of the 22k is nuts.

there is also the fact that there is not a massive amount of difference between a 6-car ICR and a mark 4 set when it comes to the ecomonics of the situation. They will not run a three car as that means no city gold and no catering apart from the trolly, which is not going to happen on a train that not only serves the two biggest cities but also on each service serves a branch to Kerry or Limerick.

And, as Thomas points out, you cant get a 4 car ICR. A few weeks ago someone on here was talking about a 4 car Mark4 as well. Fantasy island stuff.

Lets keep this real.

[Thomas Ralph]

Indeed, let's keep the Crayolas in the box.

[comcor]

Additionally, you have to remember that the 13:30 from Cork operates the 17:00 from Dublin, which operates the 20:30 from Cork and while you may get away with ICRs on the two ex-Cork services, you wouldn't on the 17:00.

[Jamie2k9]

A few weeks ago someone on here was talking about a 4 car Mark4 as well. Fantasy island stuff.

What was ment by the poster is that one of the Mark 4 sets has 6 coaches and not 7 like the rest. Citygold, Dinning Car and 4 Standard. Calculations on the number of seats per week were being made assuming all sets had 7.

Additionally, you have to remember that the 13:30 from Cork operates the 17:00 from Dublin, which operates the 20:30 from Cork and while you may get away with ICRs on the two ex-Cork services, you wouldn't on the 17:00.

It dosn't mean some servces can't be dropped to 3 car ICR's. The 12.30 when an ICR arrives in on a different platform and a Mark 4 is positioned to 5 to operate the 16.00

Cork trains will be split over two platforms at Heuston next year.

[longword]

0900 Heuston to Cork was a 3 car ICR Thursday morning, looked like plenty of seats empty when it left. I don't think that's the first time I've seen a 3 car set on that service, certainly not the first ICR. Seems to use an ICR as often as not.

[Mark Gleeson]

Fri/Sat there are no ICR's in use on Dublin Cork

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Which four-car ICR do you have in mind?

A hypothetical one - 3 car ICR is a little too small for a few of the Cork services, six-car ICR way too big 95% of the time. IR certainly had plans to re-configure the ICR fleet although this idea may well have been abandoned.

As regards abandoning the MK4 fleet, why would this be different from mothballing an arguably superior Mk3 fleet barely half way through it's life cycle.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

As regards abandoning the MK4 fleet, why would this be different from mothballing an arguably superior Mk3 fleet barely half way through it's life cycle.

Give a passenger a choice between a Mk3 and Mk4, you won't find many takers for the Mk3

[Jamie2k9]

Noticed that IE are still keeping the 19.05 connection to Nenagh in the new year. Yesterday there was 3 passengers on the connection from BallyB of which two were traveling for free. Is the connection off the 17.05 to Tralee better used?

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

A hypothetical one - 3 car ICR is a little too small for a few of the Cork services, six-car ICR way too big 95% of the time. IR certainly had plans to re-configure the ICR fleet although this idea may well have been abandoned.

As regards abandoning the MK4 fleet, why would this be different from mothballing an arguably superior Mk3 fleet barely half way through it's life cycle.

not just hypotectical, but as far as i am aware impossible, as you cant join up a 22k in that way. also, you are buggering up the diagram of another set.

as for mothballing the mark4 - its a heavily marketed branded product, same as enterprise. it is occasionally replaced out of neccessity like the DD sets, but thats all. it is also a third of the age that the mark3 were oin their withdrawal, and the mark3 was identified badly by the potential customer as it was the same on the outside as mark2d and cravens. See the Sligo saga for a prime example.

Also, if you look at the pictures of the interior of the mark3's they do, to todays eyes, look as dated as an edition of smash hits from 1988.

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Noticed that IE are still keeping the 19.05 connection to Nenagh in the new year. Yesterday there was 3 passengers on the connection from BallyB of which two were traveling for free. Is the connection off the 17.05 to Tralee better used?

in my experiance the loadings from the 17.05 were slightly better (as in four-six) but there was a large load who just got into their cars and drove off. Not surprising when it is actually quicker to drive to roscrea (and indeed any other stop) from ballybrophy station than using the train.

That 18.10-18.20 ish connection was lacking in that it initially had to dwell in Roscrea to allow the 19.05 get clearance somewhere along the line, which was amazingly annoying. I am talking of 15-20 min dwells here. In the end they got it to hang around around Brophy till the cork train came and went, which in effect ment that you had two trains within 45 mins of each other departing.

In the end the tralee train (which used to stop first in templemore) will still have a large following as it leaves at a nice time and gets in for 6pm and you can drive home from it to arrive at a reasonable hour.