New 22K trains

[Mark Gleeson]

The standard test set does include repeated door opening and closing. The trains under test are owned by the manufacturer and they pay.

The test is basically a shakedown to make sure everything is bolted down. A series of static tests is done first to confirm everything works.

[sublimity]

Will Rosslare line be getting any extra sets?

Very misleading for passengers on the IR website, saying all trains to/from Wexford are Intercity when they're clearly not. Maybe they will be?

[Thomas Ralph]

Extra 22K sets are not of any use for the Dublin-Rosslare line until they get the selective door opening sorted out. As it stands 6×22000s are too long for several platforms en route such as both sides at Rathdrum and the up loop at Enniscorthy.

[Destructix]

All this selective door controversy makes you miss the cravens/Mk2's. Is it not possible to shut off one or two particular doors?

[Colm Moore]

You would have to shut off the entire rear carriage at least (driver needs to stop at head of platform). You can't have a carriage which is a dead end.

[Traincustomer]

The only way I can see around this problem in terms of the Rosslare line is if a 6-car was two separate 3-car sets in which the trailing 3 car set could be designated as not serving Rathdrum (even though the actual train would stop there) and for passengers to/from Rathdrum to travel in the leading 3-car unit. Is this do-able or does it cause safety complications?

Other than that all that seems possible is to (i) path the 6-car trains so that they use the down platform at Enniscorthy and, (ii) omit Rathdrum on the journeys operated by the 6 car sets (no disrespect to users from the area intended).

Probably a timetabling nightmare.

[Mark Gleeson]

The Dublin Rosslare situation is a lot greater than just Rathdrum

Kilcoole - 2.8m short
Wicklow - 2.8m/7.4m short
Rathrum - 10.2m/4.7m short
Arklow - 1.9m/2.8m short
Gorey - 3.8m short (loop platform passes however)
Enniscorthy - 8m short (loop platform passes however)
Wexford - unsurpiringly passes 194m
Rosslare Strand - 18.4m/15.6m short (worst location)
Rosslare Harbour passes 146m (was designed to allow for 6 coach ICR)

Standard length for a 6 coach intercity platform is 140m, terminus 145m.

The problem is that one of the outer coaches will be wheelchair accessible or has the bike rack so locking it off isn't exactly going to be a good idea. Given the loading patterns I can't see a need for 6 coach operation. A train every 3 hours and some form of strategy to deal with the chaos of bank holiday weekends is what is needed

[Jamie2k9]

From an article on the home page:

On Monday mornings a Waterford - Dublin service is mysteriously downgraded to 3 coaches from 6.

This has nothing to do with there not being enough trains.

IR will not operate the 17.35 on Saturdays as a 6 car. Its a 3 car and very full when I have being on it. A 3 car is best suited to it but they should be operating it as a 6 to provide a service on Mondays.

Ways to sort the problem out:
Operate the 17.35 with 6 cars
Operate the 18.20 to Heuston on Saturdays as a 3 car. (currently 2 by 3 car). The 18.20 on Fri and Sat are almost empty. (took it last saturday and less than 30 passengers were onboard). Before the 17.35 was extended to Waterford it was 3 car set most days)

This would save fuel and money as well.

[Destructix]

Wasn't it the mk3's that had the problem of all the doors automatically opening but they supposedly fixed the flaw or something. It probably is possible to do it i guess but who knows how much it would cost. Its shocking to think the last time i was on a mk3 was during 2008-2009 before the 22K's took over Dublin-Limerick time flies.

I am right in thinking that on a 22k Dublin-Limerick direct if it has first class you can sit in it free cause you can't purchase first class tickets for it.

[Mark Gleeson]

Direct Dublin Limerick, first class is first and must be paid for as appropriate

[James Howard]

Is that entirely true. About once a week or so, we end up with a first class car on the 0545 Sligo - Connolly. Surely you don't have to pay to sit in that? I can't see how they charge seeing as how they are the same seats and there is no extra service provided.

[Destructix]

The 17:00 Thurles-Limerick is sometimes a first class set but it doesn't sell first class seats. They do for the 19:09 alright.

[Colm Moore]

All Dublin-Sligo services are scheduled as Standard Class only. http://www.irishrail.ie/media/DublinSligo111.pdf

The 15.25 Dublin-Limerick direct (not via Limerick Junction) is scheduled as Standard Class only. However, the 16.25 & 17.25 are scheduled as First and Standard.

The 05.30 & 06.20 Limerick-Dublin direct (not via Limerick Junction) are scheduled as Standard Class only. However, the 07.30 is scheduled as First and Standard. http://www.irishrail.ie/media/111_Du...ckEnnis111.pdf

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Extra 22K sets are not of any use for the Dublin-Rosslare line until they get the selective door opening sorted out. As it stands 6×22000s are too long for several platforms en route such as both sides at Rathdrum and the up loop at Enniscorthy.

Taking their time on selective door opening aren't they. This was talked about back in 2008!

Mark, the fact is there should be an option to run a 6 coach 22k on the Rosslare line. At the moment there's not. SDO would give Irish Rail that option in case of anticipated large passenger loadings.

The 05:35 and 07:20 to Dublin could merit 6 coaches. The same for the 16:37 and 17:36 in the opposite direction.

[plant43]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The Dublin Rosslare situation is a lot greater than just Rathdrum

Kilcoole - 2.8m short
Wicklow - 2.8m/7.4m short
Rathrum - 10.2m/4.7m short
Arklow - 1.9m/2.8m short
Gorey - 3.8m short (loop platform passes however)
Enniscorthy - 8m short (loop platform passes however)
Wexford - unsurpiringly passes 194m
Rosslare Strand - 18.4m/15.6m short (worst location)
Rosslare Harbour passes 146m (was designed to allow for 6 coach ICR)

Standard length for a 6 coach intercity platform is 140m, terminus 145m.

The problem is that one of the outer coaches will be wheelchair accessible or has the bike rack so locking it off isn't exactly going to be a good idea. Given the loading patterns I can't see a need for 6 coach operation. A train every 3 hours and some form of strategy to deal with the chaos of bank holiday weekends is what is needed

Why not just lock off the back door? That's what they sometimes do when there's a first class carriage on a train that is sold first + standard class so as people can't sneak in.

[Mark Gleeson]

The rules require that the last pair of doors in a train must be available for use, e.g. may be locked out due platform length, but must even in that condition be openable through the emergency handle. You can get around that if at the end of the coach the drivers door can be opened in an emergency

The current situation the only way to lock a door is the emergency key lock which cannot be overridden with the emergency handle.

Therefore you can only operate by closing out an entire coach

[ACustomer]

With reference to Mark's post on Rosslare line platform lengths, it would seem that platform extensions of just 2.8m at Kilcoole, Wicklow and Arklow would solve the problem (for both platforms in the case of Arklow). At all other stations bar Rathdrum and Rosslare Strand there is already one platform long enough for 6-car ICRs. In the case of Rathdrum, the constraint may be more serious in that the loop as well as the platforms are quite short, but even there 4.7m is enough. That leaves Rosslare Strand, which at least should be physically easy to extend (1 platform only needed).

In most cases 1 long platform will be enough, unless two 6-car trains have to cross. Given that the heavy demand is nearly all in one direction (up) in the morning and down in the evening, this should not be a big problem, and in any event you could make very small platform extensions in Arklow to give the ability to cross 2 trains.

I know money is short, but extending a platform by 3 or 4 metres is hardly going to break the budget. If the ridiculous station at Crusheen were dropped, it would pay for the lot.

[karlr42]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Therefore you can only operate by closing out an entire coach

I think that's what he meant, that you could lock the partition door between carriages. 5 usable carriages are better than 3.

[Mark Gleeson]

Problem is in a 6 coach set one end of the train will have the wheelchair and bike spaces. So you would absolutely have to use a 2 * 3 set at all times even then there would be chaos with reservations depending on which way around the train is on the day in question

The computer driven selective door solution is far better

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The computer driven selective door solution is far better

Yes, but do you have any indication when this is going to happen?