Bord Snip Transport cuts

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

The biggest problem (currently) is that Waterford is suffering a worse jobs crisis than any of the other major urban areas so attracting fresh commuters in the current environment will be tough.

As this line is used regularly by a small but loyal amount and the fact there is a massive times saving whilst using this line over the road route, perhaps IE could trial that hybrid road / rail bus on this line?

Right now fresh ideas are needed, the line with the current passenger numbers in its current guise is not going to last in an environment where teachers are being sacked and social welfare is being cut etc.

That's the political reality in my opinion.

Agreed. However, the railbus suggestion would reduce the service to even more of a joke than it already is and would see off the remaining passengers. IE have been trying to close the route since the late 1960s and need to be removed as its operators ASAP. They have no interest in doing anything with it and don't even market the services that currently operate on the route. I am one of the solitary regular users of the 06.25 Enniscorthy/Waterford service (change at Rosslare Strand) - when it operates - and I am damn sure few others know that it operates! Theoretically somebody living in Enniscorthy/Wexford could use the service to commute to and from work in Waterford - if it was marketed to them.

[comcor]

Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy

Right now fresh ideas are needed, the line with the current passenger numbers in its current guise is not going to last in an environment where teachers are being sacked and social welfare is being cut etc.

But are numbers ever going to rise when there's only one train a day?

And with the line's future constantly in doubt, who is going to commit to regularly commuting on it?

Vicious circle.

Now, if they could knock 30 minutes off the journey time and send even 1 morning train Waterford-Rosslare-Dublin, it could make a big difference. The longer time would be compensated for by the convenience of ending up in Connolly rather than Heuston and it would mean 2 trains a day on the line...

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by comcor

But are numbers ever going to rise when there's only one train a day?

And with the line's future constantly in doubt, who is going to commit to regularly commuting on it?

Vicious circle.

I know, the arguments are always the same.

Ultimately, Irish Rail management are the problem.

They get no pay cuts for carrying less passengers, if they close these lines, they still get the same pay and get presumeably less hassle. There is no incentive here to innovate.

My own view would be to allow these lines pass into private operation (alongside BE services) as some sort of regional revamp of transport in Munster / S.E Ireland.

However, again in my own opinion, only Clonmel to Dublin and Wexford - Waterford services should be focused on to keep these lines alive.

[Mark Gleeson]

There is a vicious circle alright. Mark points out the real problem, no accountability in the service. We have evidence that Irish Rail are publishing misleading performance results for various routes

What is a radical change not only in the timetable but also the structure from which the service is provided

[comcor]

I agree totally that they should be allowed pass to private or community operation rather than just closed. The lines must be given a chance to survive. My main concern with private operation is that the business would just be too small to attract significant players.

There's an interesting old Observer article about a community started (although I believe Deutsche Bahn have an involvement now) project to restore an old rail service here.

[Mark Gleeson]

I'm not so sure if its too small a pitch for a 3rd party, if they took over all services Galway-Limerick-Nenagh and Limerick-Waterford-Rosslare and added in a commuter service to Killkenny there is potential there

What ever happens a radical timetable is needed, but that won't be enough to over come decades of public perception of the service. We have the guts of a timetable but its going to take a huge leap of faith to implement it, its radical very radical

There are only 2 lines at true risk, Ballybrophy Birdhill (there is freight on the Birdhill Limerick section) and Waterford Rosslare.

There is still limited freight traffic on the Waterford Limerick Junction section and significant freight traffic on the Ballina and Westport line which significantly reduces the losses

[comcor]

I remember seeing before that Waterford-Rosslare was the only section of line in the country that didn't belong to Irish Rail.

Would that make it harder or easier to close and harder or easier to open to third party operators?

[PLUMB LOCO]

The Waterford/Rosslare Strand line belongs to the Fishguard & Rosslare Railways & Harbours Company which is jointly owned by CIE/IE and Stena Line (!) is an historical anachronism that has been useful in that it has prevented CIE from closing the railway in the past. Apparently to close the line would need an act of Parliament in Westminster and something similar in the Dail. Although the line is to all intents and purposes closed. It was chosen as the setting for the surreal movie "Six Shooter" made in 2005 and starring Brendan Gleeson which featured a train of Cravens, tea trolley, exploding cows and a massive shoot-out with the Gardai at Wellington Bridge. I suspect that even the film's producers failed to realise that the line is like something out of the Twilight Zone - worthy of a movie in its own right!

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Six_Shooter_(film)

That said the line is a complete disaster and has been for years - the two letters here being typical of hundreds that have appeared in recent years. The morons in the Dept.of Transport and their lackeys in CIE choose to ignore these complaints as the line doesn't really exist - it's not owned by CIE and its not owned by the GWR/BR/Stena Line..... It reminds me of the Thurles/Clonmel line which belonged to the Southern Railway of Ireland Company for whom no directors, shareholders or employees could be found when the branch was absorbed by the Great Southern & Western Railway / Great Southern Railways - lest they be held responsible for the companies debts!! Remember it's not that long ago when the CIE operated Great Southern Hotels chain used to trade while insolvent and the directors of CIE used to refuse to sign-off on the annual a/cs less they be held responsible for the losses...that reminds me of another story

[Standing Passenger]

On the subject of Bord Snip and saving money can anyone give me a plausible explanation as to why it costs about 4 times as much ie. €12m per mile to reopen a closed railway in Cork to a 60mph standard with 3 new stations at the same time as it costs €3m per mile to reopen a closed railway in Galway to a 60mph standard with 3 new stations and a multiple of automatiic crossings etc.

Cobh Junction to Middleton 6.5 miles cost €75m
Athenry to Ennis 36.0 miles cost €106m

Its an incredible difference.

I am delighted for both projects but find it hard to understand the scale of difference in costs.

I know Cork went to so-called New Works ie outside tender while Galway was undertaken internally. On the face of it it would therefore appear that the internal team should be expanded to undertake new works.

From a taxpayers perspective a detailed explanation is warranted. Of course the anomaly was'nt spotted by McCarthy. His only observation was to halt the Galway job - the one representing such comparative value for money.

An answer in the style that would be acceptable to Michael O'Leary would be welcome.

[PLUMB LOCO]

The extra cost was probably accounted for by the inordinate amount of pallisade fencing used on the Cobh Junction/Midleton line. I can't wait until Tuesday to hear reports of how many are using the new service.

[Colm Moore]

As I said. There isn't a station every 4 km on the WRC. Nor is much of the track doubled, nor does it involve partially upgrading all the cobh branch stations, etc.

Comparative value for money needs to look at cost per passenger, not cost per km of track - sure look at the North Australian line - built for a few hundred million. It was cheap per km simply because it was across the outback, where they could avoid obstacles instead of tackling them. Problem is, thers only about 2 trains per week.

[dermo88]

Thats because its the freight that makes the money on the North Australian line, and they are over a mile long, whereas the passenger trains in Australia, outside the major urban centres are for tourists only, and the majority fly.

Comparing outback Australia with Ireland is not valid.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by dermo88

Comparing outback Australia with Ireland is not valid.

Neither is comparing a short suburban line with a medium distance regional one.

[ThomasJ]

From Western People
http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eyeykfqlsn

Ballina fights to keep its precious rail link
By: Orla Hearns

BALLINA Chamber of Commerce has invited one of the town’s biggest industries, Ballina Beverages, to assist it in making a submission on the recommendations of An Bord Snip Nua.

Chamber CEO, Sandra Cribben, told the Western People that the planned sub-committee will address some of the main items of local concern arising from An Bord Snip Nua’s report, which includes the proposal to close the Manulla to Ballina rail line.

“It seems the report has classified the line as a light rail service but they have not taken account of the freight side,” Ms Cribben remarked.

She said that while there were a lot of difficulties generally with the An Bord Snip Nua proposals, the recommended closure of the Ballina-Manulla line would be among the top priorities that the proposed sub-committee plans to “fight strongly”.

A spokesperson for Ballina Beverages, which employs 349 people full-time plus another 100 contractors at its Ballina plant, said.

“Ballina Beverages can confirm that it uses the rail head at Ballina for receipt of ingredients and transport of finished goods. The closure of the rail head would be of concern to the company as this is the preferred method of transport.”


Ms Cribben said that the chamber was aware that cuts have to be made and that the majority of the An Bord Snip Nua report would have to be implemented.

“We still have to fight for what can be retained. The loss of the Ballina-Manulla line would be a serious blow – not only to industries like Ballina Beverages, but also for tourism in the area.”

Possible implications for the Department of Environment offices in Ballina as a result of An Bord Snip Nua’s stance on decentralisation is another item of concern for the chamber’s sub-committee.

“We would be anxious to hold on to those long-term, well-paid jobs which are important to the local economy,” Ms Cribben said.

Barry Kenny, Irish Rail, said Ballina was one of the most important rail freight centres in the country. The company would be making it clear in any discussions with the Department of Transport that the Ballina service is very viable and generates a commercial return for Irish Rail.

[Mark Gleeson]

No idea why Ballina made the list in the first place, passenger numbers are far from impressive mid week but there are serious numbers on weekends

Freight is profitable but is only paying its marginal costs, if you withdraw the passenger service the freight service would become unprofitable as it would have to pay full cost

[dowlingm]

one thing to remember in all this, and I see it in a lot of criticism of ABSN in areas other than transport "shure how would McCarthy et al know anything about XYZ, that's clearly nonsense, those cuts were already made..."

They mostly didn't do their own research. Essentially, they received two sets of data, one from the Department in question, and one from the part of DoFinance that monitors that Department. Between the two reports, they then came up with a proposal for each. If they are proposing cuts, it's because Transport or Finance proposed them, not that Colm McCarthy has become an authority on trains. This means ABSN needs watching as something a bureaucrat knows he could never get killed in the normal course of events he can get killed by ABSN and the national panic will see that it happens.

McCarthy and his fellow economists have an excellent blog going at irisheconomy.ie and anyone who is paying taxes in Ireland should keep a close eye on it - especially involving NAMA.

[ThomasJ]

From the Irish Times
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...252867938.html

Coca-Cola cargo restores port rail traffic
OLIVIA KELLY

IARNRÓD ÉIREANN freight container trains are to resume deliveries to Dublin Port from this morning following a six-year absence.

A twice-weekly service operated by Iarnród Éireann for International Warehousing and Transport Ltd (IWT) will run from Ballina, Co Mayo, to the port. Its main cargo will initially be containers of Coca-Cola concentrate from the Ballina production plant for export to Mexico, Australia, Japan, India and Turkey.

Trains of 18 carriages each carrying 40ft containers holding 35 tonnes of product will arrive at the port every Monday and Wednesday evening, taking up to 4,000 lorries off the road yearly. IWT said it intends to expand to a daily service within six months, servicing the western region.

The containers will operate on a round-trip basis, removing both laden and empty freight vehicles from the road network, IWT said: “This is a major development towards reducing carbon footprint and providing a statistically safer mode of transport. IWT believe that the service will save up to 5.5 million road kilometres every year and will reduce CO2 emissions by as much as 2,750 tonnes.”

While initially it will use just the Ballina-Dublin line, the reliability of the service and its environmental benefits mean it will have great potential, IWT said.

From tomorrow, trains will travel on the main line from Ballina to Heuston Station before switching to the tunnel under Phoenix Park. From there, they will run on the Maynooth line towards Connolly Station before branching off to Dublin Port.

A spokesman for the Dublin Port Company said despite the decrease in the use of rail for freight deliveries, it has maintained the rail network within the port.

About 500,000 tonnes of ore are already transported to the port from Tara Mines in Navan, Co Meath, but the new Ballina service will be the first commercial container freight service since the closure of the Cork to Dublin Port freight service six years ago.

Iarnród Éireann said the new service opened the door for other shipping companies to consider using rail to serve Dublin Port. “We are delighted to see this new service take to the rails, and to return to Dublin Port with container freight,” Stephen Aherne of Iarnród Éireann said.

While the McCarthy report recommended cuts to some regional rail freight lines, this would not affect the new service, as it operates on the Dublin-Ballina passenger line.

[Thomas Ralph]

And they've no problem using the Phoenix Park tunnel when it suits.

[Mark Gleeson]

Another service from Waterford to Dublin Port is also in the offing. The manual level crossing at Lavistown outside Killkenny went automatic yesterday so 24 hour operation moves closer.

Hopefully the continued growth in Ballina will result in some move to sort out the Athlone - Portarlington section which will benefit passengers as well

[ThomasJ]

Good to hear!

Hopefully, this puts away the suggestions of the mccarthy report of closing the ballina to manulla junction section!