Dublin to get new DART service

[Mark Gleeson]

There will be a time saving of 4-5 minutes for a northside to Pearse journey compared to now

To mix and match services would cost significant capacity and would lead to significant confusion

[Mark Gleeson]

Loop line isn't going anywhere it will be carrying more passengers than it carries now

[Mark]

Irish people dont have any integration.

WE WANT INTEGRATION!

Integration comes along...

WHAT? CHANGE TRAINS?? BOO INTEGRATION!

C'mon!

[tomcosgrave]

Mark, what routes will the Loop Line be covering? Will a "traditional" DART service be maintained? Any details welcome...

[Mark Gleeson]

http://www.platform11.org/campaigns/..._commuters.php

[tomcosgrave]

Originally Posted by Mark

Irish people dont have any integration.

WE WANT INTEGRATION!

Integration comes along...

WHAT? CHANGE TRAINS?? BOO INTEGRATION!

C'mon!

Personally, I'm not booing integration one bit - I think what is proposed is fantastic. However, I am saying that a traditional DART service across the Loop Line - a vastly reduced one - would also be very useful.

[Mark]

Originally Posted by tomcosgrave

Mark, what routes will the Loop Line be covering? Will a "traditional" DART service be maintained? Any details welcome...

The details are all clearly outlined on Irish Rails press release:
http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/dart_underground.asp

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Ireland.com

Last Updated: 28/06/2007 12:15
Irish Rail unveils €1.3bn Dublin transport plan
Elaine Edwards

Irish Rail has unveiled what it says will be the most important piece of infrastructure in the State to allow people shift from private to public transport.

The new €1.3 billion underground interconnector for Dublin's Dart light rail network, set for completion by 2015, will involve a 5.3-kilometre tunnel under the River Liffey between Heuston Station and the Docklands.

Extensions of the Dart line are also planned for Maynooth, Co Kildare, and Dunboyne, Co Meath.

The plan is part of the Government's ambitious Transport 21 programme but is now at the design stage and will be put out for public consultation.

It is intended that the underground high-capacity rail link will run from Docklands to Pearse Street to St Stephen's Green to Heuston.

"Together with the electrification of sections of the Maynooth, Drogheda and Kildare routes, it would result in a fully integrated rail network, linking with Luas and Metro at key points, allowing high quality, high frequency, easy interchange commuting across Leinster," Iarnród Éireann's website states.

It claims the project will complete the process of quadrupling Dart and commuter passenger numbers from 25 million per annum to 100 million per annum.

"The new line will dramatically increase frequency and capacity for commuters on Dart, Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines - development plans also include the extension of the Dart network to Maynooth, Hazelhatch and the Northern line," Iarnród Éireann said today.

"It will be the single most important piece of infrastructure in the State to ensure a modal shift from private to public transport, and free future generations from the gridlock which cripples the Greater Dublin area today.

"It is a central part of the Government's Transport 21 ten-year transport investment plan. It also links all rail modes - Dart, Commuter, Intercity, Luas and Metro - to form an integrated cohesive network," Iarnród Éireann said.

According to the company, the Docklands to Heuston Interconnector delivers:

A second high-capacity Dart line through the heart of the city centre - a 5.2-kilometre underground line.
Dramatically increased frequency and capacity for services on the Northern, Maynooth and Kildare lines
A fully integrated rail network for the Greater Dublin area, linking all modes - Dart, Commuter, Intercity, Luas and Metro - and ensuring that suburb to suburb as well as suburb to city centre journeys can be made by a frequent, high capacity public transport network
Two high capacity Dart lines proposed are Balbriggan/Howth to Hazelhatch and Maynooth/Pace to Bray/Greystones, with Dart extensions to some routes likely to be delivered in advance of the Interconnector.
A quadrupling of the number of passenger journeys by Dart and Commuter rail annually - up from 25 million today to 100 million
A critical piece of urban, regional and national infrastructure
The development is in design phase, Iarnród Éireann said one of the key issues to be addressed is the location of Docklands underground station.

"Iarnród Éireann are examining whether to locate the station directly beneath the River Liffey at Docklands, with station entrances from both the north and south quays, or whether to locate it immediately adjacent to the existing Docklands station," the company said today.

"A series of options are also being examined for the station at Christchurch, which will bring rail services to a brand new area of the city. Christchurch's Dart Station is planned for the High Street area, with three alternatives on view for the public."

According to the company, the new line will "dramatically change" Iarnród Éireann's Dart and commuter network.

Northern line Dart services from Balbriggan and Howth will branch off the existing Dart line after Clontarf Road, going underground at Docklands Station where the line will connect with the Red Luas.

It would continue to Pearse, connecting with what will be the Maynooth/Pace to Bray/Greystones Dart line.

Then at St Stephen's Green it connects with the Green Luas and the Metro to the airport before continuing to Christchurch and Heuston, linking with Red Luas, and Iarnród Éireann's Intercity and Commuter services before continuing above ground to Hazelhatch.

Construction is set to begin in 2010 for completion in 2015.

Iarnród Éireann will put the plans on public display next week to allow the public to view station options and the associated route alignments. Open days will be held at Dublin City Council's Civic Offices at Wood Quay on July 3rd and 4th (11am to 7pm both days).

© 2007 ireland.com

[zag]

I've tried following some of the documents, but I still don't get it.

Maybe for the hard of understanding like me, someone could explain what the story is with the loopline and the DART ? Preferably without including mysterious statements like "it's all very logical and sensbile" - start from the basis that I don't understand it.

So, DART rolls into Pearse from the South and terminates, is that correct ? I get the impression that there will be no through running of DART trains from the south beyond Pearse. What about Tara Street - what is going to serve it from the South, and how often ?

And if no through DART trains will come from the South, what is the logic in removing the service ? Is it to free up paths through Trinity for other services ?

z

[Mark Gleeson]

Just about every possible question is answered here
http://www.platform11.org/campaigns/..._commuters.php

All Maynooth/Pace to Bray/Greystones services will operate over the loop line, all will Rosslare and Gorey services

[Mark]

Check out the route map at the end of this document:

http://www.irishrail.ie/projects/pdf...nnector_A5.pdf

Should explain things.

[tomcosgrave]

There's nothing in those documents I didn't know already, guys. What I do want to know is why there is no retention of the current DART service across the Loop Line from the Northside. The more that I think about it, the more annoying it is that I have to go to Docklands or Pearse to get to BusÁras or Connolly for an Intercity service.

Surely it's not beyond the realm of reasonability to have the odd train along the traditional line?

[Mark Hennessy]

What I do want to know is why there is no retention of the current DART service across the Loop Line from the Northside.

Because the Maynooth and Bray lines are similar distance and have similar stopping distance between stations with some major level crossings.

If you run a train from Maynooth to Bray you can build up a similar stopping pattern that utilises the capacity of the Loop line whilst allowing some Longford and Gorey services over the loop line.

A similar pattern is obvious from Hazelhatch to Balbriggan, both lines are intercity lines designed for high speed. Run that stopping pattern through the interconnector and you can get 12 trains per hour.

The lack of conflicts between these two services are what gives the maximum throughput in terms of passengers. mixing and matching to suit a small number of pax would be a recipe for disaster.

[robdrysdale]

Originally Posted by tomcosgrave

Surely it's not beyond the realm of reasonability to have the odd train along the traditional line?

Yes it is. If said train is delayed it messes up trains on both lines. Modern rail planning/best practice is to remove crossovers on train lines so that there is no knock on effect with delays.

Basically, you're trading 12 trains per hour in each direction (train every 5 mins) for having to change trains at Pearce.

To get to Connelly you can back track at Pearce via Tara St. across the loop line or via the Luas. Given the increased frequencies of trains the end to end journey time would prob be similar enough.

[eugene]

I cant see any of the "old" Loop line being closed down but I cant see why they wouldn't have some at least cross city services as well as the new division going to Docklands and then to Heuston I guess.

[tomcosgrave]

Thanks for that answer markh - while I can now see the logic a lot clearer than before, and can see why a DART from the traditional Northside origins across the Loop Line would be a mess, I still am not sure that running a DART to Connolly and then terminating it there every so often would be that bad.

Bascially, having to get off at the Docklands or Pearse in order to get to Connolly or Bus Áras seems a bit inconvenient. And you don't have that convenience if you're a Southsider, by the way ;-)

[clonsilladart]

Originally Posted by zag

I've tried following some of the documents, but I still don't get it.

Maybe for the hard of understanding like me, someone could explain what the story is with the loopline and the DART ? Preferably without including mysterious statements like "it's all very logical and sensbile" - start from the basis that I don't understand it.

So, DART rolls into Pearse from the South and terminates, is that correct ? I get the impression that there will be no through running of DART trains from the south beyond Pearse. What about Tara Street - what is going to serve it from the South, and how often ?

And if no through DART trains will come from the South, what is the logic in removing the service ? Is it to free up paths through Trinity for other services ?

z

Zag...It's simple.

There will be two main dart lines:
- Dart 1: Maynooth/Pace > Clonsilla > Connolly > Tara > Pierce > Bray/Graystones
- Dart 2: Balbriggan > Clontarf Rd > Docklands > Pierce > Stephens Green > Cristchurch > Heuston > Hazlehatch

Of course there will be some losers (maybe even needing two interchanges, instead of a direct service), but for the vast majority this is a Dramatic Improvement!!!

[ThomasJ]

Dont forget drogheda and dundalk will continue as normal. People still live there you know

[Mark Gleeson]

Simplest way to put this what would you rather

Connolly or St Stephen's Green? bearing in mind the bluk of the commuter business in Connolly is from the IFSC would will have the Docklands station as well

Its public transport it's there to meet the needs of the majority, what is on the table is very well thought out and provides a commuter rail network we can be proud of

[zag]

I think the 'all change at Pearse' concept threw me and more than a few others too.

From re-reading the "I'm a Southsider, get me out of here" bit on the campaigns page I *now* know that while you change at Pearse for Howth, this does not mean that the train doesn't continue along the loop.

I'm still waiting for the .PDF to load, but from what I can gather the trains from the South will continue through Connolly and then head off towards Maynooth. So DART users from the south of Dublin will continue to be able to get a single train through at least as far as Connolly. This was really not clear from some of the documentation.

So, what other trains will leave Connolly northbound ? Only the Enterprise, or also long distance commuters to Drogheda/Dundalk ? What is likely to be the first stop ex-Connolly from any of these services ?

z