[article] Iarnrod Eireann urged to reopen tunnel

[Colm Donoghue]

ccos,
The interconnector will provide most of this, with no reduction of services to the existing users of services out of Connolly.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Mark

It there was a market for it id imagine Ryanair would have put planes on the route by now.

I believe Aer Arann already have a Cork-Belfast (City Airport) service. Don't forget the whole hassle issue with taking the plane over (relatively) short distances. Belfast international airport, for example, is quite a ways from Belfast city centre. Add to that the hassle of airport check-in and security.
Typical example is London-Paris. Flying from one to the other is usually a pain, whereas Eurotunnel is like a walk in the park.
Of course, Eurotunnel uses a TGV type train on a high speed rail.

In any case, my opinion is that a Cork-Belfast link should be the least of our worries. More important things such as efficient ticket integration, double/triple/quadruple-tracking of bottle necks, local commuter networks (Galway, Cork), Interconnector, customer service improvement and so on, are needed first. If these get sorted out, then putting together a Cork-Belfast link will seem like child's play.

[byrneeo]

Originally Posted by ccos

I don't see why Cork-Belfast wouldn't work.

The service wouldn't only be for Cork to Belfast passengers, for example people travelling Kildare -Drogheda or Dundalk-Limerick can avail of the service as well as the Cork-Dublin and Dublin Belfast passengers who will also use it.
Most Long Distance trains I use (outside Ireland) carry very few passengers from Terminus to Terminus but still provide a valuable service with High usage as there is a high turnover of passengers travelling shorter legs.

While were at it what about a night train Cork-Dublin-Belfast and vice-versa during months with no R's

Obviously. Think of all those trains in Eastern Europe, like Budapest-Bratislava-Prague-Berlin. It allows long journies while still catering for intermediate ones too. Though there are far more serious problems to deal with first.

[Gary]

I assume the Greens are in favour of the reopening of the PP Tunnel? If so and they get transport portfolio what sort of timeline do you think it would take to go ahead.

Also curious what sort of journey time would it take to go from Heuston to Connolly via PPT? Will it save people say on the Kildare route much time?

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Gary

I assume the Greens are in favour of the reopening of the PP Tunnel? If so and they get transport portfolio what sort of timeline do you think it would take to go ahead.

Also curious what sort of journey time would it take to go from Heuston to Connolly via PPT? Will it save people say on the Kildare route much time?

Timeline: it's being used right now so timeline is irrelevent.

How long does it take? Depends on what way they do it. Ideally the trains would stop at platform 11 at heuston (thats where we got the name from) and go up to Connolly. Perhaps 20 mins. Depends if they want to put in a station or two - like they planned over two decades ago - along the way and it depends on getting the slots correct.

To give a concrete example up till a few years ago the last Limerick to Dublin train on Sundays went to Connolly, but it pulled into huston first, everyone got off, it pulled out backwards by another loco - then went to connolly and this all took an hour. Proved it can be done.

IE know it can be done, we know it can be done. Problem is, a new face in the DoT will have to know it can be done as well, becasue IE will tell that new face that it cannot be done.

[Mark]

Itll only work for commuter trains not intercitys and I think that platform is actually P10. The irony behind the name being that it is only one platform and that another wasnt built on the other side.

[Gary]

I'm guessing what I mean by timeline is putting all the pieces of the jigsaw together like organising
1) slots for Kildare Trains to enter Connolly at Peak Times/ timetable changes
2) resourses to cover such a service
3) any other issues union etc that may arise.

20 mins sounds fair alternative to hopping off train, getting on Luas.

Interesting though just read the green manifesto summary and no mention of the tunnel in it.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Mark

Itll only work for commuter trains not intercitys and I think that platform is actually P10. The irony behind the name being that it is only one platform and that another wasnt built on the other side.

Yes, they will have to build Platform 11 in order to make the thing work.

[dermo88]

Is that how Platform11 got its name, one of the points being that the Phoenix Park Tunnel is not used, and to get full use out of it, IE will have to build PLatform11 at Islandbridge for the Phoenix Park Tunnel?

[Mark Gleeson]

Yes

Would piss them off no end if we succeeded

Of course some smart person will now tell me it should be called platform 9, Heuston already has a platform 9, it just doesn't have a platform, its the siding next to P8

[ThomasJ]

Mark you are always thinking one step ahead. That is exactly what i was going to ask. Boy is my face red! Regarding the interconnector surely it will only start once the extra rolling stock is there. Would the 22000 that will be allocated to carlow services be sufficient for that. Also i hope that this has no impact on Maynooth services going via drumcondra. The station has been in itself a success story. The number of passengers that use it. Students and gaelic sports fans as well as ordinary passengers. It would be stupid to divert trains from such as successful station

[Gary]

Green Government Manifesto seems to have no mention of a possible P11 or anything related to the Phoneix Park Tunnel. How did they miss that one!

[ThomasJ]

Their preference was to fast track the interconnector was mentioned a number of times pre election. I think what they have said is set up the authority to ensure the projects involved are implemented within time and budget.

[sean]

Originally Posted by Garrett

In any case, my opinion is that a Cork-Belfast link should be the least of our worries. More important things such as efficient ticket integration, double/triple/quadruple-tracking of bottle necks, local commuter networks (Galway, Cork), Interconnector, customer service improvement and so on, are needed first. If these get sorted out, then putting together a Cork-Belfast link will seem like child's play.

True, but Cork-Belfast 1-change could be done in the next timetable. By bringing Cork-Dublin trains to Connolly and rescheduling the Enterprise to meet them.

"But Connolly is full " one can hear IE cry. Well that's because everything that goes into Connolly from the West uses the Drumcondra line often to cross the mainline to the terminal platforms, leaving a fast, direct, twin track Midland line unused and P7 underutilised.

My view, which I've stated frequently, is that the approaches to Connolly, particularly from the West, are done in a very inefficient way. I believe this inefficiency reduces Connolly's capacity significantly. IE should have a plan to divide and harmonised Connolly access paths.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Their preference was to fast track the interconnector was mentioned a number of times pre election. I think what they have said is set up the authority to ensure the projects involved are implemented within time and budget.

Even with fasttracking its going to take a couple of years of consulations, possible plannings issues etc and all that depending on the money being available.

The PPT could be serving trains to Connolly in a couple of months if not sooner taking more cars off the road.

[byrneeo]

Originally Posted by sean

True, but Cork-Belfast 1-change could be done in the next timetable. By bringing Cork-Dublin trains to Connolly and rescheduling the Enterprise to meet them.

"But Connolly is full " one can hear IE cry. Well that's because everything that goes into Connolly from the West uses the Drumcondra line often to cross the mainline to the terminal platforms, leaving a fast, direct, twin track Midland line unused and P7 underutilised.

My view, which I've stated frequently, is that the approaches to Connolly, particularly from the West, are done in a very inefficient way. I believe this inefficiency reduces Connolly's capacity significantly. IE should have a plan to divide and harmonise Connolly access paths.

divide and conquer more like. if connolly trains coming from the north terminated at the same time as those coming from the west (in and onto platform 5 say) would this not free slots? or the less favourable option of enterprise trains terminating just as rosslare trains leave from 5. would this not only require one slot?

[Derek Wheeler]

PPT has a role to play irrespective of the interconnector.

1. It could've allowed some Kildare line trains into Docklands.

2. Post interconnector it could've allowed some outer suburban services into Connolly/Pearse.

3. Its route runs through huge housing areas. Stations could be provided at Blackhorse Avenue, Cabra x 2 and Phibsboro.

4. Even local commuter services could be provided.

It was planned for use on the original Kildare commuter project, running from Clondalkin to Pearse. Kildare politicians (namely Labour) got their mits on it and due to the increased pressure for Maynooth services and the extension from Clondalkin to Kildare town, the tunnel idea was killed off.

Local lobbying does nothing for the bigger picture. In fact it distorts it.

[ofjames]

Regarding the suggestions on running intercity services through the interconnector...how is this possible seeing as its been stated that only electric powered railcars may use the tunnel??

PS. How come such a restriction will apply to the interconnector when it clearly doesnt apply to the PPT??

[James Shields]

Personally, I don't think running IC trains through the Interconnector would be practical from an operational viewpoint, since the whole point of the KRP is to give DART a fully segregated line through the city. If IC trains were to use it, they would have to be electrified.

There's no problem for diesel (and let's not forget, it was built for steam trains) using the PPT, as it is a much shorter tunnel, and trains do not stop at stations within the tunnel.

I believe it would be possible to build an Interconnector that could take diesel trains, but it would have to have a lot more ventilation. However, if there is a need to run trains between the Heuston and Connolly networks (for example, a Cork-Belfast service), these should use the Park tunnel.

[Colm Moore]

The Interconnector will be a much longer tunnel and would likely need ventilation at intermediate points.