Can anyone explain Weekender fares?

[childss]

I was delighted to discover recently that the Weekender tickets offered great discounts on the train to Galway -- the ticket costs 29 compared with 44 normally -- a saving of 35%. However on the Limerick route which I get more often, the Weekender is 44 and the full price is 50 -- a saving of only 12%. Why is there such a difference? (I won't ask why the Limerick route costs more in the first place than Galway and Sligo which are further away.)

Also, why is the Weekender ticket not promoted in any way? I've told loads of people about it and no-one has ever heard of it. Even on the under-discounted Limerick route it almost pays for itself first time out.

[Mark Gleeson]

We have the simple explanation here http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...discount_cards

I have seen notices at stations in the last year and it is in the back of the printed timetable

It took IE a few weeks to invent the excuse but it goes like this

There are two classes of route, the double track, frequent, reliable and the single track slow unreliable. So Tralee, Cork, Limerick and Belfast fall under the fast and frequent while Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Waterford and Rosslare fall into the slow single line camp, different cost per mile applies depending on the route you travel. Now thats reasonable enough, the discount level is murky and seems to be driven by business factors to maxmise revenues.

Euro standard practice is to offer a fixed discount of 25% or even 50%, but Irish Rail are far from doing things the industry standard way.

The first issue at hand is not the discount per say its the slightly werid pricing of certain journeys. There be two fares Bray Belfast, 15.50 the difference same trains same day same booking office but different fares, it depends on the intelligence or lack thereof of the clerk on duty. There are adult fares which are cheaper than the discounted ones

Your next trick is to buy a Dublin City Centre to Limerick return ticket which is 2.40 more but valid on the Luas and 90/91/92 to reach Heuston from the city

[2Funki4Wheelz]

Got weekender passes on Friday evening in Heuston. Even got my mugshot in the booth at the station which resulted in a nice terrorist style shot.
So €7 Weekend pass, €6 for 4 photos. So total cost €8.50.

Travelling from Portarlington to Athenry, return on Saturday, back on Sunday.
Went to ticket office -
'Two Weekenders to Athenry please'.
'€62.'
'No, Weekenders' pushed IDs under the partition.
'Sorry' - consults bit of green paper sellotaped on wall '€34'.

So that's a 45% saving. I've already made the cost back and more and its valid for a year.
And no one I've spoken to yet has ever heard of these. This is a disgrace, I know the onus is always on the customer to find the best deal but this offer is buried.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its a wicked deal on certain routes, the crew going home for the weekend know about it

They have a nice big poster up in Thurles which is hard to miss and they are available online, the IE website has details somewhere but I can't find it

Of course Mark's best trick is how to travel and get your money back in full but its only short notice

[2Funki4Wheelz]

And here it is...

I can't see why a few ads aren't pasted up around Heuston/Connolly, they advertise some of the other limited specials enough - this is an ongoing offer

[Mark Gleeson]

Enjoy the cu na mara experience?

You can even upgrade to first and it ends up less than the normal adult fare in second

[2Funki4Wheelz]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Enjoy the cu na mara experience?

You can even upgrade to first and it ends up less than the normal adult fare in second

Actually you just reminded me - I feel terrible giving out after getting such a bargain (thanks to P11), no Cu na Mara on the 7:10 Dub-Galway and

an Arrow home!!! 16:15. I thought it was a mistake on the website. An Arrow for a busy Sunday intercity??

Needless to say, people's luggage all over the place and a few souls standing, although not for the whole trip. Only 1 toilet working the whole way.

And my fabulous weekender ticket was not checked either outbound or return.

[Mark Gleeson]

There is a 29000 on a out and back trip on a Sunday

[MOH]

Are these Weekender tickets available on all routes? Are the prices up anywhere?
A friend goes home to Carrick-on-shannon for the weekend every few weeks - anyone know that the weekender fare is?

[Mark Gleeson]

5 day return is €32,
student return €21
weekender fare is €24

[MOH]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

5 day return is €32,
student return €21
weekender fare is €24

Brilliant! Thanks Mark.
And thanks childss for bringing it up.

[Garrett]

Speaking of IE ticket prices, what is their standard Intercity pricing structure/matrix. The "P11 Guide to Ticketing" does not seem to have it. Surely this should be available under FOI?

As an example, here's the standard pricing structure used by the SNCF in France (not including special offers):
http://intra.ac-nantes.fr/eple/DAF/f...p/sncf0703.PDF (found using Google, not easy to find on SNCF website)

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

We have the simple explanation here http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...discount_cards
There are two classes of route, the double track, frequent, reliable and the single track slow unreliable. So Tralee, Cork, Limerick and Belfast fall under the fast and frequent while Galway, Mayo, Sligo, Waterford and Rosslare fall into the slow single line camp, different cost per mile applies depending on the route you travel.

I would regard that as discrimination. It's not the public's fault that some routes are single-tracked while others are double-tracked.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Garrett

Speaking of IE ticket prices, what is their standard Intercity pricing structure/matrix. The "P11 Guide to Ticketing" does not seem to have it. Surely this should be available under FOI?

But IE are not under FOI

Best we have at the moment is http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...res_matrix.php

Originally Posted by Garrett

I would regard that as discrimination. It's not the public's fault that some routes are single-tracked while others are double-tracked.

SNCF are guilty of the same, you pay more you get a better service its a fact of life

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

SNCF are guilty of the same, you pay more you get a better service its a fact of life

Come on Mark, that excuse can't be used for IE. Double tracked lines aren't better service: they should be considered a standard service! Single-tracked lines are below par standard (service-wise). "Double-tracked passengers" shouldn't pay more because of a "better" service. They should pay a reasonable price for a standard service. Okay, I admit I'm not as knowledgeable of IE fares as the rest of you, but still, please don't be so defensive of IE fares. My experience of them has rarely been pleasant.

Also, regarding the SNCF.
If the TGV is too expensive then you can take the slower intercity trains, although I admit that I always pay the extra amount to arrive in half the time! But that's the point: I pay about 30% extra to arrive in 50% of the time!

Taking a naive approach (i.e. tourist approach, not knowing all the nuances of IE tickets) to reserving a train here's what I find:

Dublin-Limerick
120 mi (190 km) (road distance using http://local.live.com)
Road: 2 hr 13 min (estimate using http://local.live.com)
Train: 2 hr 15 min
= 53.3 mi/hr or 85.33 km/hr
Standard Adult Weekday Single Fare: €43


Dublin-Galway
130 mi (210 km) (road distance using http://local.live.com)
Road: 2 hr 31 min (estimate using http://local.live.com)
Train: 2 hr 43 min (rough average)
= 47.9 mi/hr or 76.6 km/hr
Standard Adult Weekday Single Fare: €30

Now, I realise you're gonna slam me with all the reasons I'm wrong, but honestly, and maybe naively, the 43% difference between those two fares ain't justified by a 11% increase in speed. I realise there is way more choice on the Limerick line but that should keep fares down, not increase them.

[Mark Gleeson]

Firstly the fares are set by the DoT not IE

Limerick enjoys a fantastic service 15 down/14 up all have first class and all carry catering and all are reservable also is the most punctual route in the country by a 4% margin

Galway gets seven each way, journey times are overstated by 15 minutes owing to the single track and passing other trains. First is not available on some trains and not all are reservable. Its not unnoticed that only route IE operate where serious bus competition is in place, Limerick run is still a Bus Eireann monopoly more or less.

Sad fact is the price will be higher where the service levels and quality is better, you have to remember Irish Rail are playing a game here to maximise revenues

And BTW the weekday return Limerick Dublin is €41

We can't change the werid prices but we can force a change where the fares are wrong, for instance there are certain station combinations where the adult fare is less than the weekender fare

[Garrett]

I presume you're just playing devil's advocate for argument's sake. Otherwise, you and others have got too used to the system and can only see individual problems ("for instance there are certain station combinations where the adult fare is less than the weekender fare") but not the fundamental problems. Or maybe it's me playing devil's advocate? I'm confused.

Sorry for being so critical, but that's my opinion. I also realise that we're coming from two different perspectives. You're dedicated to the regular Irish commuter, I'm thinking more in terms of occasional/tourist commuters.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Firstly the fares are set by the DoT not IE

So IE have no input?? I thought the DoT regulated the fares but largely based them on the needs and requests of IE.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

And BTW the weekday return Limerick Dublin is €41

I presume P11 also realises that the notion of "reduced price" return tickets is extremely anti-competitive and anti-consumer choice. And that the "reductions" are almost a scandal in themselves? I'm amazed they've survived this long. I'll leave this for another day!

[Mark Gleeson]

Promotional fares are a good thing and while they can be somewhat unfair in terms of availability many people rely on them as it is the only way to get a decent bit of value out of Irish Rail, again industry standard practice

If we where to kick up a fuss about it, it could be bye bye and we are worse off than where we started

There are reasonable grounds at the moment to charge more per mile on the Limerick and Cork service than Westport and Galway we have to accept that the difference in service level is incredible and it really is on the ground, I know I was on the Galway line last night, late, no heating (it was below 5 degress yesterday) and no PA.

What we don't have to accept is the strange cases where the cost per mile of two stations on the same line with the same service is 10, 20, 30 or even 40% different. The DoT sanctioned price rise only further expands this gap based on experience

We can't understand why the purchase of two tickets for a very large number of journeys can in fact work out cheaper that a single direct ticket

We can't understand why on numerous combinations the student/weekender/faircard fare is in fact more than the adult fare

Those the real problems we face, the fare system must be seen to be fair at the moment the fares for certain trips come out of hat.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Promotional fares are a good thing and while they can be somewhat unfair in terms of availability many people rely on them as it is the only way to get a decent bit of value out of Irish Rail, again industry standard practice

I'm not against promotional fares. It's the return fares I'm on about. Just think about it a minute. Do you honestly think that transport companies come up with a one-way fare and then use that fare as the basis for a reduced price return fare? Me thinks it's the other way around. Since most people going somewhere usually come back, I imagine that the sale of return tickets far outweighs the sale of single-tickets. So companies will create a return fare that will make them a profit. Next they create an overpriced single fare to give the misleading impression to the consumer that the return fares have great reductions.
A consequence of these over-priced single fares is that they punish those people who would like to take a different mode of transport, or two different bus companies for example, on the outward and return trips. Consumers are being forced to stick with the same company on both trips to avoid the cost of buying two single tickets. This is bad for consumer choice and competition.
Never believe for a moment that all promotional fares are good for the consumer. Many are, but I don't believe that the return ticket is. Look at the low-cost airlines. They use a one-way ticket only policy, and apply promotional fares to those tickets. The overall result is better choice and flexibility for the consumer. I've used public transport in many different countries and their cities, and the use of return-tickets (except maybe those for groups and special events) have often been the sign of a complicated, non user friendly system.

I do understand your point about the lower quality/lower fares on the Galway line. I still don't think it's acceptable practice. Also, those that mean that the Galway/Westport line is in for a major price hike in the near future?

[Mark Gleeson]

The DoT sanctioned price open standard return Dublin Cork is over 110 euro. No one ever buys that ticket we all get the day/5 day/monthly

Single tickets are at full DoT price, intercity returns are not

And if Galway was paying the same cost/km as Cork war would break out and rightly so

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

The DoT sanctioned price open standard return Dublin Cork is over 110 euro. No one ever buys that ticket we all get the day/5 day/monthly

Single tickets are at full DoT price, intercity returns are not

And if Galway was paying the same cost/km as Cork war would break out and rightly so

Okay, I give up. The whole situation is a twisted mess and I really hope you can step back someday and see it for what it really is. Maybe, if IE ever become customer focused, they'll figure it out, but until then...

I'm finished with this thread and I need to pay my membership!