The Cork Dublin Express Train has entered service

[lasno]

Regarding Cork/Dublin service and vice versa are there specific services that have the MK4 equipment?
Thanks

[Mark Gleeson]

Ex Dublin
9:00, 11:00, 19:00 and 19:00

Ex Cork
5:30, 9:30, 13:30 and 15:30

It is expected that the
15:00 ex Dublin and 19:30 ex Cork will switch shortly

Sets 4001/2/3/4 in service, the ride in 4003 will make you feel ill

All 67 coaches have been delivered

Principle hold up is lack of train managers due to a long running industrial relations issue which while resolved means there is a serious backlog

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Sets 4001/2/3/4 in service, the ride in 4003 will make you feel ill

Is there any way of knowing which sets will be on which service. For example, I have tickets booked on the 19:00 to Cork on a Friday, and I don't like getting travel sick...

[Mark Gleeson]

No idea, but since you are booked you are in coach c so you miss most of the fun, 4003 is the worst

Sundays
12:00 ex Dublin
12:30 ex Cork

At least 2 more not sure of times

[Mark Gleeson]

So yet another trip yesterday, 12:30 Cork Dublin

Seat reservations didn't work, the electronic maps where not working, coach E thought it was going to Cork, ride was the worst I've ever experienced. Upside it was the first train on the Dublin Cork line that I've been on in 3 months that was actually ontime

We are making this easy for Irish Rail, you think given 36 hours notice of which trains I'd be on they might make an effort to get it right but no. I'm tired of excuses, one thing is clear everything that has gone wrong is totally within Irish Rails control

[MrX]

I've been on a few services that were in ridiculously early. The last train from Cork on a sunday night usually.

How bad was the ride? What was wrong with it in your opinion?

[IHIR]

Operation shock and awe commenced yesterday in Irish rail as they entered the 21st century.

The blustery winds of change that blow through the crumbling and construction site of Heustons older walls (open to viewing by public, looks like a kip) and the Victorian hay-barn that is Kent station in Cork, caused the first ever glimmerings of efficiency to appear.

Got the 7am train to Dublin and had prebooked the seat. When I got to the train a brightly yellow t shirted marketing maiden checked my reservation and escorted me to my seat! She even managed to politely shoo away a few stroppy suits and random members of public that ignored all the signs that said Pre Booked Seats. Apart from it not being one of the still-not-yet-running-and-years-waiting-new trains and of course the obligatory 5 min stupid and idiotic wait in mallow for the kerry train that was late, it was a grand journey.

To my surprise, on the return journey at 3pm, there was not 1 but 3 marketing maidens escorting people to their seats! I can only imagine that not being permanent staff has resulted in them being far too enthusiastic for their jobs. Still, other than the fact that the intercom was busted then fixed and turned up so high that aremy deafness claims would be put on hold while rail passengers submitted their claims and an inexplicable 5 minute stop just before Limerick junction and the train not being one of the new ones, it was grand.

A mere 4/5 years after internet booking has become de rigeur, we now have it for the trains!! At last, keep it going now lads. (Cant picture long serving union members wearing the yellow t shirts once the girls go back to college………..)

[Mark Gleeson]

I got the 15:00 ex Dublin on Saturday and there was no one to help me find my seat, fact was when I found it in coach C there was no seat reservation card, second time that has happened

[MrX]

I was on the 19:30 Cork-Dublin service set 4100 and the ride was fine. It was certainly no worse than a MK3 and certainly drastically quieter. No creaks, bumps, noise generally.

The train was full leaving Cork and there were some people standing after Limerick Junciton and Thurles but the train manager, to his credit, made announcements asking people to clear bags out of the way and walked along the train getting people seats.

There was however, a bit of a glitch with the internal doors in our coach (4103). They remained locked open for the entire trip, which to be honest wasn't that bad as the gangways between the coaches are pretty silent in comparison to a MK3, but on arrival at heuston one of the doors had jammed 1/3rd way open and wouldn't move. Several people had to struggle past it with heavy bags.

I'm not sure if the doors had failed or were simply switched off. Also one of the external doors wouldn't open. The door button lights were off and it wouldn't repsond when pressed.


The PIS announcements worked perfectly and were supplemented with local announcements to re-itterate changes etc.
However, in our coach and only our coach, the scrolling displays were not on. The maps were though.

Also, just as a point. Why does the PIS display "Saisuin Heuston" and say "Staisuin Heuston" in Irish and not make any mention of Baile Atha Cliath. It says DUBLIN HEUSTON in English.

The main jist of the message should be "DUBLIN" wheather or not it's heuston is really not all that big a deal particularly as the train doesn't serve any other Dublin station on its route.

Overall though, I didn't find the ride particularly bad at all. The MK3s can be as bumpy, I think it's largely down to poor track.

[sean]

Well, Irish Rail is probably only doing PIS in Gaeilge at all to stay in compliance with the law and avoiding the weight of the Shinners and rest of the linguistic fascist brigade down on their necks. I mean, seriously, who's going to understand "Balie Atha Cliath" that DOESN'T understand "Dublin?"

Very, very, very few would be my guess.

[MrX]

Personally, I wish that people would get a bit realistic about the Irish Language and start pumping money into areas that might actually encourage its use rather than trying to shove it down people's throats, a method that has clearly failed misearably, but that would be going rather far off topic.

"Lana Bus" and "Lana Tram" have to be the best examples of this. Not only do they fly in the face of proper bilingualism but they also use a crude gaelicisation of the English word "lane".

Fair enough if they were in the Gaeltacht, but they're mostly in central Dublin and Cork.

The mistranslation was only a minor issue with the CDE though. I was more concerned with the doors, or at least the fact that they seemed to be switched off at the coach ends.

My observation over the last few years has been that the ride in general on the Cork line has taken a nose dive. The MK3 ride on large sections of the line is not very good anymore. The CDE ride was flawless on smooth sections of track, I would reckon even smoother than the MK3 as the suspension seems to be much less noisey and the insulation of the coach is much heavier. The train just moves along silently without all of the creaks and groans associated with the MK3 sets.

Perhaps the suspsension on the set that I was on last night has been adjusted to cope better with Irish tracks, but overall the ride wasn't bad. It even seemed to handle the really bumpy bits, e.g. a track switch to platform 6 at Heuston with considerably more grace than a MK3 set would.
If the ride either "improves with age" as the wheel profile starts to wear in to the tracks / suspension's tweaked etc they should be nice trains. The passengers in general seem quite impressed.

The major issues that most passengers have are not perhaps with the finer points of the ride quality but rather with the lack of services and modern facilities on the MK3 coaches which are firmly stuck in the early 1980s and their 1970s interior design concepts are certainly showing their age. While, yes, they could be refurbished, that's highly unlikely to happen. People are shallow, they're impressed by PIS, snazzy interiors, etc etc.. The seats are vastly superior to the MK3 too. They're not as deeply sprung but they seem to have genuine ergonomic design the MK3 seats seem to have been designed simply to look a certain way with no thought put into how they might interact with someone's back. If you're tall an MK3 seat is torture after 3 hours as they force your back into a totally unnatural and uncomfortable position by allowing your lumbar region to curve outwards while the bottom of the headrest hits you in the shoulder-blades just to make the position even worse. The CDE seat overall is a lot more comfortable for a long journey. Also the handrests lift out of the way making it much easier to get in and out of the seats and opening up the possibility of spreading yourself across two seats on a quieter train.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by sean

Well, Irish Rail is probably only doing PIS in Gaeilge at all to stay in compliance with the law and avoiding the weight of the Shinners and rest of the linguistic fascist brigade down on their necks. I mean, seriously, who's going to understand "Balie Atha Cliath" that DOESN'T understand "Dublin?"

Very, very, very few would be my guess.

As has been pointed out before under the transport act Iarnrod Eireann are required to provide everything in Irish. Having travelled several times on the Mk4 trains I can find nothing wrong with the Irish announcements they are clear and correct. The correct name of the station is Heuston station, not Dublin Heuston, thus Heuston Station Dublin would be correct. The Irish version is correct

This is not the forum to express a personal grudge or dislike about the Irish language, take it up with your TD or go elsewhere, continuing on this line of discussion will risk a ban

[MrX]

The interesting PIS glitch though was the lack of scrolling displays in one coach + the fact that it didn't seem to announce the connecting services at Limerick Junction, Mallow etc. Rather just "we are now approaching mallow" type announcements.

Connections rather being announced by the train manager.

The only mistake was "The snack and catering car located at the rear of the train"
A few mins later "The snack and catering car located at the front of the train"

At least they're giving the passengers a bit of exercise as they wander up and down the lenght of the train. Prevents deep vein thrombosis

Sure you can't be spoon feeding them!

I'm a fan of proper bilingualism though. Would rather have everything absolutely right in both languages on public services. I just feel the key point on a Dublin bound train is Dublin / B.A.C. regardless of wheather it terminates in Heuston or Connolly. It's covered in English though, which is essentially going to be the most relevant to those travellers unfamilar with the 2 station system in Dublin. The PIS does announce and display "Dublin Heuston" which makes absolute sense. This is also the case in the UK with services bound to cities/towns with multiple stations.

What has always irritated me with CIE (Dublin bus in particular) signage has been that it's paid lipservice to the bilingualism requirement rather than actually making the proper effort. The MK4 trains do, for the first time, go the whole hog, just was simply pointing out what I would personally consider something that might be more "passenger friendly" i.e. if you're on the look out for "Dublin / Baile Atha Cliath" you might spot it more easily than Heuston (or its Irish spelling) - This is particularly important for tourists who do rapidly become familiar with Baile Atha Cliath on signage.

It's also worth noting, the MK4s do serve connections to gaeltacht areas via Mallow to Kerry and via bus to west cork.

[Mark Gleeson]

Set 4001 is rumoured to have the best ride of the bunch, it probably helps that it was jacked up in Inchicore for sometime to pull pieces of a cow out of it. IE are still looking for the coupling that detached on impact

During the impact a lot of celling panels, light fittings etc came lose, that would explain a lot of the funny issues we are seeing, all of which seem isolated to 4001, that said 4115 in set 4003 had a loose celling panel recently.

A large set of modifications are being carried out, some of the details of which don't make for comfortable reading but there is a continuning problem where nuts are working loose which would go a long way to explaining the ride varying. The wheel profiles need to be changed as well.

The best example for weird Mk4 ride is Templemore, Cork bound, approach at 85 mph its giddy but for about 200m through the station is becomes perfect only to return to giddy on a Mk3 you notice a difference but the approach is far calmer.

The seats are so much better the only issue really is that oversided duct on the floor. Interesting thing to note is the seats in the buffet are first class spacing with much larger tables

The PIS system should not be used to give information about catering services thats explicitly pointed out in the guidelines.

[MrX]

That duct is pretty enormous alright. You'd wonder why they didn't route it under the coach itself.

What's with the interior doors though? Switched off or failed?

It was quite worrying to see that one of them managed to jam 1/3rd way shut and didnt seem to want to open despite several strong pushes from some of the stronger members of the travelling public. One guy pushed it back and there was a definite sound of something mechanical grinding in a way that it definitely shouldn't!!!

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by sean

Well, Irish Rail is probably only doing PIS in Gaeilge at all to stay in compliance with the law and avoiding the weight of the Shinners and rest of the linguistic fascist brigade down on their necks. I mean, seriously, who's going to understand "Balie Atha Cliath" that DOESN'T understand "Dublin?"

Really, it's a matter of professionalism. If you can't do it properly, why do it at all.

Having everything written in our national language as well as the handy language we all learn from the telly means that people get to use the living language.

As for the discussion on "lána bus" and "lána tram," as Irish is a living language it picks up words from other languages. Like "le weekend" in french or "television" in english which comes from some other language.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Lads, stay on topic.

However, i might cull a new thread from this.

IE are obliged to be bilinugal, as noted above IE carry passengers from and to Gealteacht areas. If they are giving them mis-spelt and incorrect information it ought to be brought to their attention.

[sandraoh]

why does the train manager always have to ask people to move to the rear/front of train in Portarlington? Couldn't that be included in the electronic announcement?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by sandraoh

why does the train manager always have to ask people to move to the rear/front of train in Portarlington? Couldn't that be included in the electronic announcement?

Legally the train shouldn't be even allowed stop in Portarlington

Its no problem to include it however it only applies Dublin bound, Cork bound with 8 coaches the first class coach just about fits, you want to see Templemore where the platform is only 100m long for 200m of train

[MrX]

Can't they just extend the platforms?! ?!

They've only had ... 30 years of 200meter trains.