A 15 year old and Irish Rail

Colm Donoghue · 25-07-2006, 08:43

From Indo 25July06

After hearing so much praise for Irish Rail in recent weeks, I felt that I must write of the appalling standard of service that I received from their staff on a journey from Limerick Junction to Dublin Heuston.

As a fifteen year old student who has just completed his Junior Certificate exams, I felt positive that I still qualified for the Under Sixteen Children's fare which is half the adult fare. To my amazement however, I was told that unless I produced my passport, I would be charged the adult rate. Despite producing a membership card which contained my date of birth, I still had to pay the adult rate.

To add insult to injury, for a journey which was double the price in my case, I still had to endure standing room only for the entire two-hour journey.

I feel that now is the time for Irish Rail to do something for its younger passengers.

It certainly hurt me to have my day trip ruined by something as ridiculous as this as it was my first trip to Dublin without my parents with me.

Despite the fact that one receives a Student Travel Card at the age of sixteen, to the best of my knowledge, no such card is produced for under-sixteens living outside the capital.

Is it not time something was done to encourage young people to use public transport?
TADHG RYAN,
KNOCKLONG,
CO LIMERICK

Mark Gleeson · 25-07-2006, 10:02

A) Sadly Irish Rail are legally able to do this since the child fare is a concession, lack of a national ID card doesn't help. There has been serious abuse of the concession, letter doesn't say if a photo existed on the ID produced, it a photo did it should be accepted otherwise its limbo (local boozer wouldn't). Problem is teenagers try to make themselves look older than they are.

Of course the simplest way around this would have been to board the train without a ticket and pay onboard and only produce sufficent cash for the child fare, legally its suspect but if the booking office can't sell you the ticket you want that is equivalent to the office not being open

Irish Rail should produce at minimal cost a youth identity card which names the school location and home location which would double for under 16 ID, this is done in Europe but for a good reason, see below (12-18/21/25 is a middle fare band below adult but above child)

The onus is on the passenger to prove they are entitled to the reduced fare, the failure here is a lack of a simple national ID card, which solves a heap of problems elsewhere as well.

Even with all this in place you will still get people complaining

B) The child age limit across europe is 12 better keep quiet about that

C) Seat reservations are available to all ticket holders bar those on social welfare passes (DoT only permit day of travel sales)

PaulM · 25-07-2006, 11:42

They used to have an ID card. Was that only for the DART?

Thomas J Stamp · 25-07-2006, 13:16

Nope, I had one, back in the days of steam and b&w photography.

bigjim · 25-07-2006, 13:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul Mulcahy

They used to have an ID card. Was that only for the DART?

I had a yellow one when I was under 16 yrs, changed to a green one for my last few years in school. It had Iarnród Éireann written on it, so for all rail I assume?

Colm Donoghue · 25-07-2006, 14:11

and ye got that in Tipp? TJS & BigJim?

Children are not entitled to a Passport as a right by the way, only if Both parents agree.

Thomas J Stamp · 25-07-2006, 14:14

Nope got mine in Dublin, but it was a cie one, so valid for everything.

bigjim · 25-07-2006, 17:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmd

and ye got that in Tipp? TJS & BigJim?

Dublin too

. I just asked in the local station for the form.

Mark Gleeson · 25-07-2006, 21:51

Have PDF of said form if anyone is interested

Derek Wheeler · 25-07-2006, 23:58

When I was 14 (back in the days when most here were kids

) I had a similar experience on a 68 bus from the city centre to clondalkin. Its was just before the days of IE and DB. I bought my ticket from the driver and sat down. Outside Joe Wongs restaurant just after the junction of the naas road and the long mile road, an inspector got on. He checked tickets very quickly as there weren't many on board. When he checked mine, he asked my age and I told him 14. He asked me for ID to prove my age. I told him that I didn't have ID. He then put me off the bus at the red cow pub (long before the red cow M50 interchange existed). I was a minor. He showed no mercy despite my pleas and in fact actual tears. I tried to explain that I had already purchased a ticket from the driver, who did not question me and that I was miles from home (old nangor road, newcastle end of clondalkin). No joy. No money. No mobile phone back then. I walked the rest of the way home and very traumitised by the experience. (no exaggeration) My parents were angry, but had no knowledge of the complaints proceedure. They made some calls and got nowhere.

To this day, I still remember it and I sympathise with the young lad quoted in the indo. No amount of "Mr. Spock" logic justifies a situation like this. Judgement of character must come into it and a reasoned approach should be adopted. (professionally trained staff would have these qualities)Personally, I hope the inspector who threw me off that bus way back then, died a miserable death. On mature reflection, he exhibted a power crazed attitude to a vunerable youngster, who was not your typical thug and could have possibly kicked the **** out of him. Knowing this (obviously his character assessment was working on that score) he made a big deal of ejecting me from the bus. If it happened today, the company would be sued, castigated in the media and apologise on every radio show available to them.

He was nothing more than an institutionalised CIE tosser on a power trip. I suspect that the youngster from Limerick came across a similar character. It looks like some of the old school are still hanging around.

In 1986, unless you travelled regularly on a school bus, ID cards were not available. As a 14 year old that walked to school, I had no need for one. Furthermore it was not promoted across the bus network. I had an ID card in 1988, when I moved to Naas, that entitled you to a student fare on BE services. You had to travel to Bus Aras to get it. I needed it to get to school in clondalkin. Ive lost count of the amount of times, the same old bastard, "questioned" its validity and this lead me to the conclusion that the male generation, born in the 1930s, working for CIE, didn't need to shave until they were 25.

So its very easy to see why Im biased against the culture amongst some CIE staff down the years. If only SUVs and wealthy parents had been around then.

Thomas J Stamp · 26-07-2006, 09:29

Quote:

He then put me off the bus at the red cow pub (long before the red cow M50 interchange existed). I was a minor. He showed no mercy despite my pleas and in fact actual tears. I tried to explain that I had already purchased a ticket from the driver, who did not question me and that I was miles from home (old nangor road, newcastle end of clondalkin). No joy. No money. No mobile phone back then. I walked the rest of the way home and very traumitised by the experience. (no exaggeration) My parents were angry, but had no knowledge of the complaints proceedure. They made some calls and got nowhere.

Quote:

He was nothing more than an institutionalised CIE tosser on a power trip.

AND SO IT BEGUINS.....................................

I recommend therapy.......

Derek Wheeler · 26-07-2006, 09:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

AND SO IT BEGUINS.....................................

I recommend therapy.......

Yea. But can I still sue?

Brian Condron · 26-07-2006, 10:04

Wow, this seems to be a common topic with people, my first time to get the train on my own up to Dublin at age 14, began with my mother giving out to the man in the ticket office because he wouldn't sell me a child ticket. I remember him being one of the rudest men I ever met, he actually said that he preferred not to look at people he sold tickets to. But after my Mam gave out to him, I got the child ticket, mother's are great like that!

I then remember a few years later this curious time paradox thing that happened in my class when we were all 17, most of my friends were under 16 saturday morning getting the train up to Dublin, but over 18 saturday night when heading into the pubs!

PaulM · 27-07-2006, 08:57

Here is a good one.

When I was about 17 I got the DART into Pearse on Patrick's day. There used to and maybe still is some old bolloks* in Pearse who was helping collect tickets that day. He was hassling some guy who was obviously younger than me for proof of age. The guy had none and was trying to leave (it was very busy) he tried to move past the old guy and the guy pushed him against the wall he tried again and the wanker* punched him! As the guy tried to get free Anto and Deco came over with big smiles and grabbed him. Anto raised his fist, at this point members of the public starting shouting at them and some people stood in the way of Anto, Deco and bollok. The best thing was Bollok, who must have been in his late 50s. Started saying "He's got no proof of age."

There you go folks. When you have no ID, IE staff have the right to punch you. Especially when you are about 15 and there are 3 of them aged 18 - 60.

* Excuse language, only way to describe this guy.

Donal Quinn · 27-07-2006, 11:58

well just for the craic i have an opposite story, as there always is when dealing with IE front-line staff.

living in athenry we regularily abused the half fare into galway when we were over the age limit

la amhain a friend of mine (17 yr old) got on a train with no ticket and when the inspector came along this happened:

my mate: half fare to galway please
inspector: what age are you?
m: 16
i: that'll be £2 (or so)
m: thanks, there you go
i: here's your ticket... by the way, you're 15...!!

PaulM · 27-07-2006, 12:39

I got on a bus once asking for child fare (I was 14)

Driver: Do you smoke
Paul: Yes
D: Then you're not a child
P: I'm only 14
D: If you smoke you're not a child
P: But...
.
.
.
D: *sigh* DO YOU SMOKE?
P: Eh, um, ah..... no?
D: 35p please!

Rare to see that, nice when you do.

Thomas J Stamp · 27-07-2006, 21:48

It's all coming out now........

I remember back just before the big snow of 81 (its relevant) and the old 36B to Ballymun. There was a bit of an idiot opo (one of the good old yellow single deckers) and he gave out to me one day cos the fares went up that day but i didnt know that, did i?

Funny how it was his bus that got hijacked and burnt out during that snowstorm.

Quote:

The guy had none and was trying to leave (it was very busy) he tried to move past the old guy and the guy pushed him against the wall he tried again and the wanker* punched him! As the guy tried to get free Anto and Deco came over with big smiles and grabbed him. Anto raised his fist, at this point members of the public starting shouting at them and some people stood in the way of Anto, Deco and bollok. The best thing was Bollok, who must have been in his late 50s. Started saying "He's got no proof of age."

I noticed this happened in Blackrock where the IE lads assume your all pansies. 'twould never happen at the Junction less Deco and Andy would like to go on living till retirement.

PaulM · 28-07-2006, 13:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

I noticed this happened in Blackrock where the IE lads assume your all pansies. 'twould never happen at the Junction less Deco and Andy would like to go on living till retirement.

Who's Andy? I didn't know there was one of them in IE?

When that happened I was 17, I wasn't getting involved. Despite my D4 accent I don't think I would allow Anto or Deco try that on me or some kid today.

25-07-2006, 08:43	#1
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	A 15 year old and Irish Rail From Indo 25July06 After hearing so much praise for Irish Rail in recent weeks, I felt that I must write of the appalling standard of service that I received from their staff on a journey from Limerick Junction to Dublin Heuston. As a fifteen year old student who has just completed his Junior Certificate exams, I felt positive that I still qualified for the Under Sixteen Children's fare which is half the adult fare. To my amazement however, I was told that unless I produced my passport, I would be charged the adult rate. Despite producing a membership card which contained my date of birth, I still had to pay the adult rate. To add insult to injury, for a journey which was double the price in my case, I still had to endure standing room only for the entire two-hour journey. I feel that now is the time for Irish Rail to do something for its younger passengers. It certainly hurt me to have my day trip ruined by something as ridiculous as this as it was my first trip to Dublin without my parents with me. Despite the fact that one receives a Student Travel Card at the age of sixteen, to the best of my knowledge, no such card is produced for under-sixteens living outside the capital. Is it not time something was done to encourage young people to use public transport? TADHG RYAN, KNOCKLONG, CO LIMERICK

25-07-2006, 10:02	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	A) Sadly Irish Rail are legally able to do this since the child fare is a concession, lack of a national ID card doesn't help. There has been serious abuse of the concession, letter doesn't say if a photo existed on the ID produced, it a photo did it should be accepted otherwise its limbo (local boozer wouldn't). Problem is teenagers try to make themselves look older than they are. Of course the simplest way around this would have been to board the train without a ticket and pay onboard and only produce sufficent cash for the child fare, legally its suspect but if the booking office can't sell you the ticket you want that is equivalent to the office not being open Irish Rail should produce at minimal cost a youth identity card which names the school location and home location which would double for under 16 ID, this is done in Europe but for a good reason, see below (12-18/21/25 is a middle fare band below adult but above child) The onus is on the passenger to prove they are entitled to the reduced fare, the failure here is a lack of a simple national ID card, which solves a heap of problems elsewhere as well. Even with all this in place you will still get people complaining B) The child age limit across europe is 12 better keep quiet about that C) Seat reservations are available to all ticket holders bar those on social welfare passes (DoT only permit day of travel sales) Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 25-07-2006 at 10:22.

25-07-2006, 13:16	#4
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Nope, I had one, back in the days of steam and b&w photography. __________________ We are the passengers

25-07-2006, 14:14	#7
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Nope got mine in Dublin, but it was a cie one, so valid for everything. __________________ We are the passengers

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25-07-2006, 11:42	#3
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	They used to have an ID card. Was that only for the DART?

25-07-2006, 14:11	#6
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	and ye got that in Tipp? TJS & BigJim? Children are not entitled to a Passport as a right by the way, only if Both parents agree.

25-07-2006, 21:51	#9
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Have PDF of said form if anyone is interested

25-07-2006, 23:58	#10
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	When I was 14 (back in the days when most here were kids ) I had a similar experience on a 68 bus from the city centre to clondalkin. Its was just before the days of IE and DB. I bought my ticket from the driver and sat down. Outside Joe Wongs restaurant just after the junction of the naas road and the long mile road, an inspector got on. He checked tickets very quickly as there weren't many on board. When he checked mine, he asked my age and I told him 14. He asked me for ID to prove my age. I told him that I didn't have ID. He then put me off the bus at the red cow pub (long before the red cow M50 interchange existed). I was a minor. He showed no mercy despite my pleas and in fact actual tears. I tried to explain that I had already purchased a ticket from the driver, who did not question me and that I was miles from home (old nangor road, newcastle end of clondalkin). No joy. No money. No mobile phone back then. I walked the rest of the way home and very traumitised by the experience. (no exaggeration) My parents were angry, but had no knowledge of the complaints proceedure. They made some calls and got nowhere. To this day, I still remember it and I sympathise with the young lad quoted in the indo. No amount of "Mr. Spock" logic justifies a situation like this. Judgement of character must come into it and a reasoned approach should be adopted. (professionally trained staff would have these qualities)Personally, I hope the inspector who threw me off that bus way back then, died a miserable death. On mature reflection, he exhibted a power crazed attitude to a vunerable youngster, who was not your typical thug and could have possibly kicked the **** out of him. Knowing this (obviously his character assessment was working on that score) he made a big deal of ejecting me from the bus. If it happened today, the company would be sued, castigated in the media and apologise on every radio show available to them. He was nothing more than an institutionalised CIE tosser on a power trip. I suspect that the youngster from Limerick came across a similar character. It looks like some of the old school are still hanging around. In 1986, unless you travelled regularly on a school bus, ID cards were not available. As a 14 year old that walked to school, I had no need for one. Furthermore it was not promoted across the bus network. I had an ID card in 1988, when I moved to Naas, that entitled you to a student fare on BE services. You had to travel to Bus Aras to get it. I needed it to get to school in clondalkin. Ive lost count of the amount of times, the same old bastard, "questioned" its validity and this lead me to the conclusion that the male generation, born in the 1930s, working for CIE, didn't need to shave until they were 25. So its very easy to see why Im biased against the culture amongst some CIE staff down the years. If only SUVs and wealthy parents had been around then.

26-07-2006, 10:04	#13
Brian Condron Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Posts: 268	Wow, this seems to be a common topic with people, my first time to get the train on my own up to Dublin at age 14, began with my mother giving out to the man in the ticket office because he wouldn't sell me a child ticket. I remember him being one of the rudest men I ever met, he actually said that he preferred not to look at people he sold tickets to. But after my Mam gave out to him, I got the child ticket, mother's are great like that! I then remember a few years later this curious time paradox thing that happened in my class when we were all 17, most of my friends were under 16 saturday morning getting the train up to Dublin, but over 18 saturday night when heading into the pubs!

27-07-2006, 08:57	#14
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	Here is a good one. When I was about 17 I got the DART into Pearse on Patrick's day. There used to and maybe still is some old bolloks* in Pearse who was helping collect tickets that day. He was hassling some guy who was obviously younger than me for proof of age. The guy had none and was trying to leave (it was very busy) he tried to move past the old guy and the guy pushed him against the wall he tried again and the wanker* punched him! As the guy tried to get free Anto and Deco came over with big smiles and grabbed him. Anto raised his fist, at this point members of the public starting shouting at them and some people stood in the way of Anto, Deco and bollok. The best thing was Bollok, who must have been in his late 50s. Started saying "He's got no proof of age." There you go folks. When you have no ID, IE staff have the right to punch you. Especially when you are about 15 and there are 3 of them aged 18 - 60. * Excuse language, only way to describe this guy.

27-07-2006, 11:58	#15
Donal Quinn Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 267	well just for the craic i have an opposite story, as there always is when dealing with IE front-line staff. living in athenry we regularily abused the half fare into galway when we were over the age limit la amhain a friend of mine (17 yr old) got on a train with no ticket and when the inspector came along this happened: my mate: half fare to galway please inspector: what age are you? m: 16 i: that'll be £2 (or so) m: thanks, there you go i: here's your ticket... by the way, you're 15...!!

27-07-2006, 12:39	#16
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	I got on a bus once asking for child fare (I was 14) Driver: Do you smoke Paul: Yes D: Then you're not a child P: I'm only 14 D: If you smoke you're not a child P: But... . . . D: sigh DO YOU SMOKE? P: Eh, um, ah..... no? D: 35p please! Rare to see that, nice when you do.