P11 PR: New €117million train carriages blocked by unions

TomB · 11-04-2006, 14:22

New €117million train carriages blocked by unions

Iarnród Éireann are delaying the introduction of new trains for the
Dublin-Cork service due to industrial relations matters, Platform 11
(Ireland's rail passengers organisation) can reveal.

The 67 Cork Dublin Express coaches have been testing since their
delivery in July 2005, with a cost of €117 million to the taxpayer.
The carriages will be used to eventually provide an hourly service on
the Dublin-Cork route from December 2006, not December 2005 as first
proposed.

Although coaches normally need to undergo testing before entering
service, Platform 11 is aware of no safety issues which prevent
introduction of the new coaches, which are badly needed to ease
overcrowding as well to finally removed unreliable steam-heated
carriages over 40 years old that are still being used on some
services.

Iarnród Éireann plan to replace the role of train guards with a new position
of 'train manager'. Train guards are refusing to accept this change
and are blocking the introduction of the new carriages, even though
they can be seen daily by passengers on antiquated, cramped trains as
they pass the Iarnród Éireann works in Inchicore.

The new carriages were initially planned to be entered into service in
December 2005, with successive Iarnród Éireann spokesmen pushing the
date back first to January, then March.

Platform 11 is calling on unions and Iarnród Éireann to find a solution to
their squabbles so that rail passengers can benefit from the first new
intercity carriages since 1984. Unions have a long history of resistance to
improvements in service, from longer DART carriages to extension of
services to Greystones and new trains on the Maynooth line. Equally as
these carriages have been on order for years we do not see why Iarnród
Éireann has not dealt with this issue at an earlier stage.

ends

Semanresu · 11-04-2006, 20:48

should put that on the website

Navan Junction · 12-04-2006, 06:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Bibby

New €117million train carriages blocked by unions

Make that 'New €117million train carriages DE-RAILED by unions'

Mark Gleeson · 12-04-2006, 08:16

Do forget IE management afterall there decision has led to this mess

The date keeps getting moved back, Dick Fearn IE CEO said two weeks on March 2nd at a business breakfast meeting, of course we had been told January, then February

The date is now May, it keeps moving by 4 weeks

TomB · 12-04-2006, 08:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by NavanJunction1

Make that 'New €117million train carriages DE-RAILED by unions'

Platform 11, unlike that scurrilous outfit Meath-On-Track, does not lower itself to putting excruciating puns in its press releases

PaulM · 12-04-2006, 08:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semanresu

should put that on the website

I'll try and get it today. Don't fret they normally go up right away.

Thomas J Stamp · 12-04-2006, 10:07

Shall we start writing a similar press release for the delayed introduction of the new intercity DMU's due in December?

Not to mention for the interconnector, the new DART lines , the start of everything else down the line? I mean, it surely is a caser of fill in the blanks.

Mark Gleeson · 12-04-2006, 10:18

Don't even need to wait, what of the 20 DART coaches which went on a trip to Prague, there only 9 months late. Sadly the Koreans and Japanese tend to deliver ontime

Mark Gleeson · 12-04-2006, 21:13

http://www.platform11.org/media/pres...&no=pr_06.html

Mark · 12-04-2006, 21:50

Im heading to Praha in the summer, ill keep an eye out for them...

dermo88 · 13-04-2006, 17:15

Disgusting.

Privatise, privatise, privatise. Deliberately make Irish Rail financially bankrupt, liquidise it, then privatise it. This is the only way to teach those wasters a lesson.

Fire them all, hand them their P45's

Then get them in, and give every last one of them new working contracts.

None of us would dare pull such ridiculously expensive stunts on our employers. It would be immoral to dare try. This is the equivalent of refusing to use a Pentium 3 over a typewriter.

Unions have a place. Protect workers rights, but in the prehistoric monolith of CIE, you wonder.

There were'nt any Unions out helping the likes of me when I was a student on 2 quid an hour, and the drivers back then were arguing about driving Arrows.

Wasters, chancers, slackers, and abusers. I'm sick of them.

philip · 13-04-2006, 18:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by dermo88

Disgusting.

Privatise, privatise, privatise. Deliberately make Irish Rail financially bankrupt, liquidise it, then privatise it. This is the only way to teach those wasters a lesson.

Fire them all, hand them their P45's

Then get them in, and give every last one of them new working contracts.

None of us would dare pull such ridiculously expensive stunts on our employers. It would be immoral to dare try. This is the equivalent of refusing to use a Pentium 3 over a typewriter.

Unions have a place. Protect workers rights, but in the prehistoric monolith of CIE, you wonder.

There were'nt any Unions out helping the likes of me when I was a student on 2 quid an hour, and the drivers back then were arguing about driving Arrows.

Wasters, chancers, slackers, and abusers. I'm sick of them.

I disagree. I wouldn't rehire every last one of them, only ones who hadn't been ringleaders in all this carry on in the first place. And we think they'll willingly operate through the interconnector? The unions need facing down NOW!

Mark Gleeson · 13-04-2006, 18:50

Privatisation isn't the answer, considering the essential nature of the service provided to keep the country moving the unions know they can reek chaos. The bulk of positions require significant training so they will always be safe in the knowledge that IE cant break them

The real problem here is a tendency of the unions to drag up ancient agreements when it suits. There have been some crazy things. What we need is a New York situation where it is illegal for certain groups to go out on strike

I have absolutely no problem with grievances there are proper channels in place to cope with problems

As far as I understand the CDE problem, IE want to remove the guard position considering the vast bulk of services are driver only operated and its a already agreed procedure. The question is what exactly the train manager position is and who is entitled to the job.

End of the day if your job no longer exists you have no case

Derek Wheeler · 15-04-2006, 00:26

Apparently the train manager role is to be operated by Network Catering staff!

Other issues involved, include who is responsible for operating fire fighting equipment. One story evolving from the IE powerhouse is that passengers would be expected to use extinguishers.

While IE continue to deny any problem, remember that DART drivers received a one-off payment of £8,000 + bonuses to extend working to Greystones/Malahide. What does this tell you?

Certain IE representatives lied to the media in the aftermath of our press release. Ive one message for them.....we won't go away, because its rail passengers that suffer. Furthermore, the union issue is also preventing the operation of certain services, over certain lines on certain days.

More anon.

philip · 15-04-2006, 10:16

We won't go away, you're right Derek. The battle to highlight this sickening game where the passenger (and taxpayer!) is a mere pawn buffted about like so much driftwood is only beginning.

Thomas J Stamp · 19-04-2006, 11:24

Apparently the train manager role is to be operated by Network Catering staff!

There's a very nice chap (called Pat, I think), who serves the first class (seats with curtains) lads on the 1705 Heuston to Limerick, I'd trust him with fire handling duties as he can carry a tray of G&T's and beer over everyone's head whilst the train is lurching about, cool guy.

Dont know about the rest though. Anyway as i've said before what with all these new DMU's coming there should be jobs for all.

James Shields · 19-04-2006, 12:08

Quote:

Anyway as i've said before what with all these new DMU's coming there should be jobs for all.

But is the IC DMU order increasing the fleet size or just replacing expired stock? I seem to recall the number of new DMUs was not much higher similar to the number of Cravens/Mk2s being retired. If each train had half the number of staff, IE might be hard pressed to find things for everyone to do.

Thomas J Stamp · 19-04-2006, 21:38

Well, there are supposed to be more units, ie the new DMUs are being sorted into three car and six car units, which could mean a super-guard-fireman-G&T serving-ticket-collector-chappie on each train.

If there is to be one train per hour to Cork and one every two hours everywhere else that means more trains and should find work for the lads, taking into account natural wastage (no pun intended, honest!) and that.

11-04-2006, 14:22	#1
TomB Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Limerick Posts: 207	P11 PR: New €117million train carriages blocked by unions New €117million train carriages blocked by unions Iarnród Éireann are delaying the introduction of new trains for the Dublin-Cork service due to industrial relations matters, Platform 11 (Ireland's rail passengers organisation) can reveal. The 67 Cork Dublin Express coaches have been testing since their delivery in July 2005, with a cost of €117 million to the taxpayer. The carriages will be used to eventually provide an hourly service on the Dublin-Cork route from December 2006, not December 2005 as first proposed. Although coaches normally need to undergo testing before entering service, Platform 11 is aware of no safety issues which prevent introduction of the new coaches, which are badly needed to ease overcrowding as well to finally removed unreliable steam-heated carriages over 40 years old that are still being used on some services. Iarnród Éireann plan to replace the role of train guards with a new position of 'train manager'. Train guards are refusing to accept this change and are blocking the introduction of the new carriages, even though they can be seen daily by passengers on antiquated, cramped trains as they pass the Iarnród Éireann works in Inchicore. The new carriages were initially planned to be entered into service in December 2005, with successive Iarnród Éireann spokesmen pushing the date back first to January, then March. Platform 11 is calling on unions and Iarnród Éireann to find a solution to their squabbles so that rail passengers can benefit from the first new intercity carriages since 1984. Unions have a long history of resistance to improvements in service, from longer DART carriages to extension of services to Greystones and new trains on the Maynooth line. Equally as these carriages have been on order for years we do not see why Iarnród Éireann has not dealt with this issue at an earlier stage. ends

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11-04-2006, 20:48	#2
Semanresu Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 4	should put that on the website

12-04-2006, 08:16	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Do forget IE management afterall there decision has led to this mess The date keeps getting moved back, Dick Fearn IE CEO said two weeks on March 2nd at a business breakfast meeting, of course we had been told January, then February The date is now May, it keeps moving by 4 weeks

12-04-2006, 10:07	#7
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Shall we start writing a similar press release for the delayed introduction of the new intercity DMU's due in December? Not to mention for the interconnector, the new DART lines , the start of everything else down the line? I mean, it surely is a caser of fill in the blanks.

12-04-2006, 10:18	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Don't even need to wait, what of the 20 DART coaches which went on a trip to Prague, there only 9 months late. Sadly the Koreans and Japanese tend to deliver ontime

12-04-2006, 21:13	#9
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	http://www.platform11.org/media/pres...&no=pr_06.html

12-04-2006, 21:50	#10
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311	Im heading to Praha in the summer, ill keep an eye out for them...

13-04-2006, 17:15	#11
dermo88 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 136	Disgusting. Privatise, privatise, privatise. Deliberately make Irish Rail financially bankrupt, liquidise it, then privatise it. This is the only way to teach those wasters a lesson. Fire them all, hand them their P45's Then get them in, and give every last one of them new working contracts. None of us would dare pull such ridiculously expensive stunts on our employers. It would be immoral to dare try. This is the equivalent of refusing to use a Pentium 3 over a typewriter. Unions have a place. Protect workers rights, but in the prehistoric monolith of CIE, you wonder. There were'nt any Unions out helping the likes of me when I was a student on 2 quid an hour, and the drivers back then were arguing about driving Arrows. Wasters, chancers, slackers, and abusers. I'm sick of them.

13-04-2006, 18:50	#13
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Privatisation isn't the answer, considering the essential nature of the service provided to keep the country moving the unions know they can reek chaos. The bulk of positions require significant training so they will always be safe in the knowledge that IE cant break them The real problem here is a tendency of the unions to drag up ancient agreements when it suits. There have been some crazy things. What we need is a New York situation where it is illegal for certain groups to go out on strike I have absolutely no problem with grievances there are proper channels in place to cope with problems As far as I understand the CDE problem, IE want to remove the guard position considering the vast bulk of services are driver only operated and its a already agreed procedure. The question is what exactly the train manager position is and who is entitled to the job. End of the day if your job no longer exists you have no case

15-04-2006, 00:26	#14
Derek Wheeler Registered user Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Kildare Posts: 1,555	Apparently the train manager role is to be operated by Network Catering staff! Other issues involved, include who is responsible for operating fire fighting equipment. One story evolving from the IE powerhouse is that passengers would be expected to use extinguishers. While IE continue to deny any problem, remember that DART drivers received a one-off payment of £8,000 + bonuses to extend working to Greystones/Malahide. What does this tell you? Certain IE representatives lied to the media in the aftermath of our press release. Ive one message for them.....we won't go away, because its rail passengers that suffer. Furthermore, the union issue is also preventing the operation of certain services, over certain lines on certain days. More anon.

15-04-2006, 10:16	#15
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	We won't go away, you're right Derek. The battle to highlight this sickening game where the passenger (and taxpayer!) is a mere pawn buffted about like so much driftwood is only beginning.

19-04-2006, 11:24	#16
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Apparently the train manager role is to be operated by Network Catering staff! There's a very nice chap (called Pat, I think), who serves the first class (seats with curtains) lads on the 1705 Heuston to Limerick, I'd trust him with fire handling duties as he can carry a tray of G&T's and beer over everyone's head whilst the train is lurching about, cool guy. Dont know about the rest though. Anyway as i've said before what with all these new DMU's coming there should be jobs for all.

19-04-2006, 21:38	#18
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	Well, there are supposed to be more units, ie the new DMUs are being sorted into three car and six car units, which could mean a super-guard-fireman-G&T serving-ticket-collector-chappie on each train. If there is to be one train per hour to Cork and one every two hours everywhere else that means more trains and should find work for the lads, taking into account natural wastage (no pun intended, honest!) and that.