[Article] Iarnród Éireann offered free Wi-Fi network

[dowlingm]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0616/wifi.html?rss

Monday, 16 June 2008 16:09
An Offaly-based technology company has offered to install a Wi-Fi network on Irish trains for free.
AirAppz is offering Iarnród Éireann a Wi-Fi network for passengers to use on their laptops, PDAs and mobile phones.
While there would be no cost for Iarnród Éireann, customers would most likely have to pay to surf.

The firm's Chief Executive, Evert Bopp, said passengers could use the service for around €1 an hour or pay a monthly unlimited subscription of €29.

Mr Bopp said his company is ready to roll out the service if it were given the go ahead.

There are several methods for delivering a Wi-Fi service to a moving train, but Mr Bopp said using existing fibre optic cables that run alongside main rail lines is the best solution.

By placing receivers on the trains to pick up the signal and repeaters along the tracks, Mr Bopp said a 2mb per second connection is possible. If the fibre optic option is not viable AirAppz has suggested a 3G network or a satellite connection.

AirAppz would make money from the venture through location-based advertising and ads would change each time the train passed a new station.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny said it is planning to meet with AirAppz about the proposal.

Mr Kenny said it has had approaches similar to this one in the past, but cost has been the recurring issue.

'If it is beneficial to us and our customers we would consider it,' Mr Kenny said.

However, if AirAppz proposal is deemed viable, Mr Kenny said the contract would have to go to open tender.

Canada and several states in the US including California, Washington and New Mexico have installed Wi-Fi on their public transportation systems.

On the Iarnród Éireann website's Frequently Asked Question section, the company says it is not in the public's best interest to install the current wireless technologies for its customers to use on board its trains.

'Anything we install now is likely to be completely redundant within five years,' the website says.

Instead it advises passengers to obtain their own wireless solutions through mobile providers.

Mr Kenny said Iarnród Éireann has not put money into Wi-Fi because its priority is investing in more trains.

[Mark Gleeson]

I've met people from the main provider of this service in Europe, they being the guys who did GNER in the UK who remain the only UK operator to go wifi on all services

Firstly, this is extremely expensive gear, you can't use off the shelf consumer wifi routers you get in pc world or Peats, it has to meet rail safety specifications which is pretty hard to do. You have to physically cut a hole in the roof to fit a satellite receiver which has structural implications.

Of course the business case GNER developed for wifi was driven by remote access to the trains computer to diagnose and repair problems enroute, not passengers surfing the web. Its free to all passengers, but then again GNER where the best long distance operator in the UK, they had there house in order in passenger service terms

There is catch, no doubt heaps and heaps of ads will get dumped on me

The service is still appalling that needs to be addressed first without question

[Thomas Ralph]

You'll note that GNER folded last year...

[Mark Gleeson]

The company which owned them Sea Containters went belly up, GNER was profitable. Point is these guys had got the customer service angle sorted and started to look at value add

Irish Rail barely manage to provide a service on any level

[Laois Commuter]

I agree with the IE website comments on this one. Wi-Fi on trains is largely a pointless gimmick nowadays. Times have moved on - most who want net access on the move have it via mobile provider either in to phone, laptop or PDA - and speeds and coverage will oinly improve as time goes on. The only people to benefit would be the provider and (presumably) IE thorugh profits.

LC

[James Shields]

Pretty much any IT equipment will be obsolete in five years, but that doesn't mean it's not worth doing. Having an outside company handle it is probably the best solution, though.

The mobile network has is good up to a point, but 3G coverage can be patchy, especially since the mobile providers don't seem to make coverage along rail lines as big a priority as along roads.

[Donal Quinn]

i used a 3G modem goign to galway and back last week - rarely had a very good signal and mostly was on GPRS. But it was the randomness of it that was most frustrating - loads one minute - nothing the next.

having a consistent WIFI signal in the carraige would be a serious boon. Also it is relatively future proof. more and more mobile devices now have wifi - iPhones iPaqs some nokias and Sony ericssons etc and there is no doubt that it will feature on laptops and mobile devices for years to come.

Pricing is key - and it has been a major flaw of wifi hotspots so far. instead of being premium services at up to 10 euro per hour they should be a fraction of that. what is the point in paying for installation if no-one is using it? pile em high and sell em cheap. and do clever things like an add-on on the ticket etc - especially for annual users

[Mark Gleeson]

The solution we have seen in use, uses several 3G phones on a number of different networks but requires a satellite receiver to be fitted to the roof to overcome the blackspots. Satellite is painfully slow in response times

For reference GNER spent at least £3.2 million on the project, number of train sets involved would be less than Irish Rail have

[Garrett]

Is there WiFi in any of the train stations? I imagine a good start to providing Internet access to customers would be to install a Wifi router in all train stations.

[Mark Gleeson]

Third party wifi services are available

Fairly sure Eircom have wifi in Heuston
Bitbuzz definitely provide wifi in Pearse

If you can't live without a connection, get a 3G modem, or a 3G phone and connect your laptop with bluetooth

The technology is moving a incredible speed, the cost of the equipment for use on train is slower and more expensive as it takes time to modify and certify the equipment to meet the regulations

Of course every new train Irish Rail have already have a ethernet wired network on board and they all have wifi cards fitted

This proposal comes from a company with ZERO experience of doing wireless connections to fast moving objects, appear to have no knowledge of rail safety and certification standards. The market leaders are a outfit called icomera who have europe wide experience and they ain't giving it away for free, so the whole thing doesn't seem to stack up

[evert]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

This proposal comes from a company with ZERO experience of doing wireless connections to fast moving objects, appear to have no knowledge of rail safety and certification standards. The market leaders are a outfit called icomera who have europe wide experience and they ain't giving it away for free, so the whole thing doesn't seem to stack up

Mark,

Thanks for contacting us before you make comments about our knowledge or expertise in this field. Your comments is based on assumption rather than fact.
If you would like to find out more about us feel free to contact me directly. The same goes for anybody else who would like to know more about our offer or service. I will make time to talk to each and every one of you.

Regards, Evert Bopp.
CEO AirAppz

[Mark Gleeson]

The website presents no indication of service to mobile clients, everything is referenced as point to point or fixed hotspots[1]. No case studies are presented to indicate successful deployment in any field, no white papers on the technology, no endorsements from happy customers nor are any existing clients named this is most unusual in the tech field. No published peer reviewed material in the journals from what a little bench research. Its all rather blank[2] Other companies provide considerable detail as a matter of fact[3,4]. Google revealed nothing useful.

We want to believe its possible, just no publicly available info makes us very wary compared to the opposition

We are fully entitled to be skeptical in this context as the target customers we will end up paying for whatever is provided, nothing is free there is always a catch. The established providers, eg Icomera aren't giving it away for free, T-Mobile/uknomad aren't doesn't look like Siemens are either. We have been promised all kinds of wonderful things, few have ever been delivered. What little we get is usually poorly done with little consideration of the end user.

More than happy to revise post and formally delete the comment should some publicly available proof appears, which will massively improve the credibility of the whole thing. I am as many members will know in the wireless medium access control business myself

[1] http://airappz.com/services/
[2] http://airappz.com/projects/
[3] http://www.icomera.com/customers/gner
[4] http://www.uknomad.com

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Third party wifi services are available

Fairly sure Eircom have wifi in Heuston
Bitbuzz definitely provide wifi in Pearse

If you can't live without a connection, get a 3G modem, or a 3G phone and connect your laptop with bluetooth

It should be very simple to just install a Wifi hotspot in every IE station around the country. I mean, we're not talking about a whole lot of stations here, about a 100 I think it is.

A hotspot in stations shouldn't run into too many regulatory problems, compared to putting Wifi on trains. Also, as broadband speeds improve the Wifi hotspot should also naturally improve in capacity.

When a train is stopped or passes slowly through a station, passengers could hit the send/receive button on their e-mail client. At a terminus station, passengers could perform quick internet tasks (weather, news) while they wait for the train to pull out.

It all seems like a no-brainer to me. I know that priorities may be elsewhere at the moment, but jeez, 100 wifi routers probably costs less than an IE board meeting!

[Mark Gleeson]

More like 120+ many would need several hotspots, plus the black haul connections

Would have to be a public tender

Again if you need internet get a 3G modem, its the only way to get reasonable assurance of access. It would work out cheaper than paying the hotspot company and much greater coverage

[evert]

Mark,

Thanks for your reply.
I do agree that the website is thin on details but that is solely due to the fact that the venture itself is relatively new and we are busy working on our service and the website is something that has, temporarily, taken a backseat.
However the people behind AirAppz have extensive experience with the technologies and industry. I myself have been working with wireless data & voice services since 1999 and have worked as consultant on project all over the globe. We have developed an innovative solution for the provision of public wifi services that opens up several new revenue streams, something that makes it possible for us to provide the actual Internet access for a very low fee or even for free. This service can be deployed in static as well as dynamic/mobile environments.
The main "issue" with providing wifi access on a moving vehicle such as a train is the backhaul connectivity to the Internet. However there are various solutions available for this (wifi, wimax, 3g, satellite etc) and it is basically a question of proper and insightfull network planning and sufficient cash. We can do the former and we have the latter.
From a technical viewpoint our network will be no different than any of the other ones deployed across the globe. What is different is that we do not depend on paid internet access for our revenue. Because we are in ongoing discussions with Irish rail (and a number of other parties) I cannot go into to much detail. However I can tell you that our revenue is generated by passive elements (no direct user involvement) with no charge to the user and active elements (direct user involvement) in the form of subscription services.
The "plain vanilla" internet access is not and will never be the mainstay of our revenue.
I am more than willing to answer any more questions that readers of your forum might have.
Let me end by saying this; if we get the go-ahead for this it will only be beneficial to rail travellers, so a little less scepticism would be much appreciated.

Regards, Evert Bopp.

[plant43]

So apparently they have (free) WiFi on some Bus Eireann services now, which makes IR look even worse.

[Donal Quinn]

no mention of this on BE website - where did u hear?

[markpb]

boards.ie

[Mark Gleeson]

On trial it appears

Bus much easier than a train, fewer people, slower speed, less safety red tape and few if any tunnels.

We did the back of an envelope numbers and to fit out the rail fleet would be very significant and the same money would get a lot more in terms of service improvements

[ccos]

Was on a DB train with wifi recently, two points to note

1 its not free, you have to have a t mobile account or pay with credit card.

2 Only available on ICE trains between Dortmund and Munich, even if you are on a hotspot train you can't use it off this line.