Congestion Charge for Dublin

[ThomasJ]

With all the problems associated with the Dublin Transport System (in my experience the rail system), I think it is fair to say that there is no real alternative for the large majority of car users in Dublin and that the mere talk of congestion charges should be non-existant given the lack of alternative resources for Car users and if Transport 21 component go down the pan this has to!


It is good to see Dempsey, with all the reservations I have about him not living in a cloud cuckoo-land like some people when it comes to transport issues and realises that the congestion charge is not a possability. But will there ever be an proper option of alternative transport?


What do you think?

From the Independent today:

http://www.independent.ie/national-n...s-1297106.html

The Article:

By Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent
Monday February 25 2008


THE Government will today formally unveil controversial proposals for London-style congestion charges for Dublin and new "pay-as-you-drive" road pricing for our main roads.


The measures will cite international examples of where these initiatives have worked, such as congestion fees in Stockholm and London, and bill-pay road-price tolling in the Netherlands.

The Government plan, called Sustainable Transport and Travel, aims to free cities from traffic congestion, move people away from cars and increase public transport usage.

Road pricing means that motorists pay directly for driving on a particular roadway or in a particular area, similar to tolls.

Congestion charges involve drivers paying a fee to enter a city-centre cordon. This has worked well in London and is being credited with a 20pc reduction in car numbers in the zones. The document, being published by Transport Minister Noel Dempsey today, warns that unless such measures are considered, we face a grim future: l Average speeds in urban areas in morning peak hour in Dublin will have dropped from 13kmh, in 2006, to 8kmh, in 2016. l Increased dependence on car travel will contribute to obesity. l Traffic pollution will cause increasing damage to health and contribute to acute and chronic diseases.

Mr Dempsey says that while he has no ideological difficulty with congestion charges, he believes they should only be introduced when sufficient public transport alternatives are in place.

The Transport 21 suite of plans must be complete or almost complete before we can seriously examine the possibility of congestion charging, he says.

Mr Dempsey wants the public to make their voices heard on what measures they think should be introduced to encourage us all to change our travel behaviour, as over-reliance on cars is unsustainable and cannot continue without dramatically worse gridlock

The Government is committed to spending over €16bn under Transport 21 to improve public transport.

However, even with this level of investment delivering a new Metro, Luas extensions, new buses and new rail cars, it will not be enough to avoid extra gridlock.

Mr Dempsey said yesterday: "If we continue our current travel patterns, traffic congestion will increase and quality of life and the quality of our environment will decline. We can't allow that to happen."

"We need to see a major shift to public transport and we're investing to make this an attractive option. We need to dramatically reduce CO2 emissions in this sector, and we need to ease congestion and free up valuable time for commuters," he added.

Other options being outlined today include more flexible working time, workplace travel plans, car sharing, car clubs, school travel plans, including walking and buses, more integrated transport planning, better walking and cycle routes, and increased use of park and ride facilities.

A public consultation will follow, after which officials will publish a detailed action plan setting out what exact measures will be introduced, including the possible congestion charges and road pricing.

One of the ideas up for discussion in this document is a sustainable travel public awareness campaign based on the concept of the popular Tidy Towns competition.

Towns and cities would be encouraged to become a "sustainable travel demonstration town or city".

- Treacy Hogan Environment Correspondent

And The Editorial:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/ed...c-1297188.html

A fair deal for travelling public
Monday February 25 2008


WE are about to get our first real exposure to the concept of a congestion charge today when the Government outlines its latest proposals. It is part of the 'softening-up' process that goes hand in hand with the slow unfurling of a policy with an undoubted Green hue.


Paying to be allowed to travel through parts of a capital city, for example, is anathema to most of us. The rhetoric can be emotional at times, linking our freedom of travel within Ireland to the heroic battles fought in Dublin and elsewhere to cast off the shackles of stricture.

There are, however, more contemporary issues of liberty at issue. A freedom of a different kind is deemed to be at stake. The fight now is to shed the shackles of dependency on fossil fuels and to maintain the freedom of current and future generations to breathe cleaner air in an environment of reduced threat to our global habitat. We are not, of course, breaking new ground in considering congestion charges. Precedents are being set around the world. Perhaps the one with which we most immediately associate is London, where Ken Livingstone introduced the charge some time back.

However, in embarking on this policy, we must be careful that we compare like with like. London has a public transport system, which, for all its faults, represents an achievement of provision and coherence disgracefully lacking here. There is a real alternative for car users. Can we say the same for Irish drivers? The answer, for the most part, is a resounding No. It still ranks as one of the pieces of non-joined-up planning, for example, that we should have two separate Luas lines.

The picture is even more grim for those who, pushed further and further from Dublin by surging house prices, must commute in their cars to Dublin without even having the option of taking a bus or train. With that in mind we need to be realistic in our approach to charging for use of urban space and routes. We need to establish park-and-ride facilities so people can drive to the city limits and then take public transport. There are scandalously few of them, despite the fact that where in place they have been shown to be extremely successful. Provision of a more comprehensive and integrated transport system is of course central to our future as an economic entity though it looks like taking far longer to implement than congestion charges.

Undoubtedly we need deterrents for vehicle-use in our most crowded urban areas. But we need to invest in, and encourage use of, the alternatives with as much gusto.

And what Dempsey said today -RTE News

http://www.rte.ie/news/2008/0225/transport.html

Dempsey emphasises transport alternatives
Monday, 25 February 2008 17:05
The Minister for Transport and the Marine, Noel Dempsey, has said transport alternatives must be provided before congestion charges are introduced in cities.

The Minister was speaking as he launched a public consultation on the Government's new sustainable transport and travel programme.

The consultation forms part of a plan to reduce congestion in Ireland's cities.

AdvertisementThe Government's 12-year vision for Sustainable Transport and Travel deals not alone with congestion charges but also with carbon and fuel taxes, workplace parking levies and biofuels.

The document launched today points out that the petrol excise rate in Ireland is around 8% lower than countries like France and the UK, and is the fifth lowest in Europe.

This afternoon Mr Dempsey said that alternative transport options must be provided before congestion charges could be introduced.

He said that charges alone would not resolve Ireland's congestion problem and could only be part of the solution.

He also said a change in behaviour from members of the public was central to resolving congestion problems.

The minister said it was important that buses are being utilised to their maximum. He said he would not oversee the purchase of additional Dublin Buses if existing buses were not being utilised effectively.

The public consultation remains open for six weeks.

Is there even a need for public consultation?

[Colm Moore]

Mr Dempsey says that while he has no ideological difficulty with congestion charges, he believes they should only be introduced when sufficient public transport alternatives are in place.

Thats like telling a cancer patient that they only have to give up smoking after they've had the chemotherapy - smoke away till then.

The minister said it was important that buses are being utilised to their maximum. He said he would not oversee the purchase of additional Dublin Buses if existing buses were not being utilised effectively.

Rather vague rhetoric.

[ThomasJ]

And rather ironic considering there are buses still in storage waiting to be let out and it needs clearance from his department

[Mark Gleeson]

Since the 4A, 128 and 140 there aren't really that many in store

Document is a bit thin on direction but then again its consultative, We have six weeks to file our submission.

[Derek Wheeler]

Ha! Ha! I strongly urge people to read the document in full. Its available for , download at transport.ie. In rail terms, its some almighty fudge. Relating specifically to rail issues, (commuter and freight) the questions asked, have already been addressed by the strategic rail review. So here we go again on the merry go round.

The DTO are currently planning beyond Transport 21 and now we have this debacle from the DOT. The document refers to the DTA as "proposed" and then offers up yet more questions on structures for delivery of solutions!! Furthermore, it goes on to suggest that we may require regional structures to plan transport. Holy Christ, we know that and Ive been screaming it from the roof tops for nearly 2 years. (including several letters to the DOT) Its not rocket science Noel!!!

The only positive part of this initiative is the fact that we as citizens, get the chance to have a say. In my submission to the DTA working group way back in November 2006, on behalf of RUI, I advocated that the DTA needs to have "users" represented on its board, so they can have input to the decision making process. This document is half way there. However, the same problem persists. There's still nobody in charge of implementation. Without that the situation is still like I described before....a fart in a strong breeze. But I'd encourage everyone to get a submission in regardless. Tell the DOT what you usually moan and groan about on internet forums.

Having listened to Dempsey talk all day today, Im still no more convinced about Transport 21. There's still too much "cart before the horse" going on. In a sensible scenario, we do all the consultation first. Then set up structures to deliver it nationwide, based on order of importance. Sadly, the whole thing is still a disjointed mess.

[weehamster]

Question:
Will the polititions pay the congestion charge when they drive into the Dail?
If so, does the tax payer have to pay for this too or will it come out of their own pocket? ...which mostly comes from the taxpayer as well.