Metro West Route

[ofjames]

Minister Dempsey and Frank Allen are launching the selected Metro West route at lunchtime today. No news as of yet however. Im waiting for the barage of criticism of this project once its announced.....

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0705/metro.html

[tomcosgrave]

Looks like it's going to be Route 1 - it's serving Clondalkin...
http://www.ireland.com/newspaper/bre.../breaking2.htm

[comcor]

A bit late for thoughts like this now, but maybe it could have terminated in Howth and done away with the whole issue of splitting northern line services and providing a shuttle.

[clonsilladart]

Details can be found here

No real surprises.... The way it interconnects with the Maynooth and Kildare Lines will be Key!!!
The Porterstown Metro and Dart Stations should be built at the same time, thus optimising integration...... What are the odds???... 1000/1????

[ofjames]

in the literature surrounding metro west, it states that the tracks 'will be segregated from road traffic,' but then it also states that 'the trams will cross junctions in the same manner as luas.'

Can any of you guys reconcile these statements for me???

[clonsilladart]

Originally Posted by ofjames

in the literature surrounding metro west, it states that the tracks 'will be segregated from road traffic,' but then it also states that 'the trams will cross junctions in the same manner as luas.'

Can any of you guys reconcile these statements for me???

I think what they mean is that "Metro"-West will have it's own alignment (not used by cars, as some of the Luas alignment is), but will cross over some junctions at Grade.

I personally think that anything that doesn't have it's own segregated alignment for 100% of the journey should not be called "Metro"!!!

[Thomas J Stamp]

It means that, because its being done on the cheap, the trams (that's what they are really) will run down the meridian of the Belgard Road and the Fonthill Road and also Blanchardstown Road South.

This, ladies and gentlemen, is LUAS West, not MetroWest.

[ACustomer]

What is it with the idiots who design transport systems in this country? The biggest mistake in building the M50 was the plethora of junctions which were not freeflow, now being put right at great expense. Howth Junction is an example of a rail junction which cries out for a flyover. Inadequate junctions and crossings may save money in the short run but they are totally destructive of capacity, especially at peak periods. Peak period congestion the Dublin's biggest transport problem. Will they ever learn?

[packetswitch]

How about we just call it the Dublin Rail system (the whole lot, Luas, Metro, DART etc) and call the lines by colours or numbers or destinations or whatever and they just get on with building it before 2100?

[al2637]

The 51 in Amsterdam is regarded as a Metro, it is mostly segregated, yet crosses junctions and grade, doesn't seem to cause any problems. It's not as bad as it sounds guys.

I've always thought that this model would be ideal for Metro west!

http://www.urbanrail.net/eu/ams/amsterdm.htm (line 51)

[Thomas J Stamp]

I've been on it. It's underground for a good stretch. This isn't.

Leaving that aside, the route is seriously flawed.

[al2637]

5 stops out of 52 underground, maybe about 4km.

[ofjames]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

the trams (that's what they are really) will run down the meridian of the Belgard Road and the Fonthill Road and also Blanchardstown Road South.

So you reckon it will run like the luas along the naas road?

From my local knowledge, given the vast amount of undeveloped land between ballycoolin and the airport, there should be no difficulty as regards segregating the line completely in that section of the route. The same goes for the section from when it crosses the N4 until the Porterstown interchange.

Section between porterstown and ballycoolin is tricky however. Theres space alongside the length of the blanchardstown road so that it could run in a segregated manner, however the two junctions it will cross at clonsilla rd and at the power city roundabout are busy. They should really be bridged.

I cant see any way how the line could be kept at grade yet kept away from traffic through the blanchardstown centre. Then theres the small matter of how it will cross the N3. It better get its own bridge!!

Any chance that the residents of tallaght, clondalkin, quarryvale and blanchardstown could kick up a helluva fuss and get this done right (as successfully done with metro north in ballymun?)

Also, agreed this project definitely seems to be far more similar to the tallaght luas line than the metro north. but is that such a bad thing? ( author prepares for onslaught)

[Mark]

It's all about Densities. Densities warrent and equalise the cost of tunnelling. City centre = high density and no space. West Dublin = mixture of high and low density with plenty of room for surface and elevated running.

When comparing metro in Dublin to international systems please dont mention London, Paris, Moscow etc. They are on a different planet in this regard. Compare like with like.

[a_slight_hitch]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Leaving that aside, the route is seriously flawed.

In what sense?

I'd like to see a response to this post:

http://forum.platform11.org/showpost...1&postcount=56

as it raises several good points. With the information in the public demain as my only source of knowledge I'm unable to see how your assertion is the case. Perhaps the fact that it is not full metro to start with is a flaw in the project, but the route itself seems to join all the necessary dots.

[Thomas J Stamp]

I'll have to be brief, because its nearly time to go home.

Here are three reasons:

1. It is not properly connected to The Square Shopping Centre and it doesnt Connect with the LUAS there

2. It doesnt serve Liffey Valley SC nor it associated Retail Parks at all.

3. There are serious problems in the way it is planned to serve Blanchardstown Shopping Centre.

Bonus reason:

It doesnt serve James Connolly Hospital.

Longer and more detailed discussion is being held in the members section. I can fell the righteous finger of Mark Gleeson waiting to lock this thread as infrastructural debate is held there, but I'm not locking it because you will need to reply to this.

As for ofjames post, there were many responses to it, all of which anticipated what I have just said, most of which has been borne out to be correct.

[ofjames]

Fair point regarding JCM hospital, it doesnt serve Blanchardstown Institute of Technology either.

Students of BIT travelling via metro west will have to disembark at the NAC and take their chance walking through some of the toughest estates in the country. Wouldnt envy them!!

It would be possible to serve the hospital if a stop was located at the roundabout at the southern end of snugborough rd north (just after the bridge over the N3). Theres a road entrance to the hospital there, would be less than 10min walk to the front door of A&E

[a_slight_hitch]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

1. It is not properly connected to The Square Shopping Centre and it doesnt Connect with the LUAS there.

ok - have to admit I'm not particularly familiar with the area but my reading of the map published yesterday is that the LUAS connects to Metro via track laid between Tallaght and Tallaght East.

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

2. It doesnt serve Liffey Valley SC nor it associated Retail Parks at all.

right - do you mean it doesn't serve Liffey Valley SC in the same way that Balally doesn't serve Dundrum TC on the Green Line? Again from the map published yesterday and a cursory glance at the aul' google maps the proposed stop would seem roughly similar distance away as Balally and Dundrum TC. My experience with Dundrum is that it's a minor pain in the hole when it's raining but very accessible in general terms. Pardon my ignorance again but am not particularly familiar with the Liffey Valley area.

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

3. There are serious problems in the way it is planned to serve Blanchardstown Shopping Centre.

please elaborate.

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

Bonus reason:

It doesnt serve James Connolly Hospital.

fair enough - although because of it's proximity to Blanchardstown TC it may have been a choice between the 2?

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

As for ofjames post, there were many responses to it, all of which anticipated what I have just said, most of which has been borne out to be correct.

No there wasn't. The reason I linked to the ofjames post was because the thread ended 1 post later and I couldn't find any satisfactory responses anywhere else. It's a bit picky I know but check the thread.

[philip]

Originally Posted by ofjames

Fair point regarding JCM hospital, it doesnt serve Blanchardstown Institute of Technology either.

The latter being the bigger trip generator I'd have thought.

Originally Posted by ofjames

Students of BIT travelling via metro west will have to disembark at the NAC and take their chance walking through some of the toughest estates in the country. Wouldnt envy them!!

Surely metro West will gentrify these estates and all will be well. I'm sure I saw it that way in an artists impression!

[Thomas J Stamp]

Just like A Slight Hitch, I hate to nitpick.

But, you admit you don't know the area, well I do. Once you know the on the ground situation you will understand the problems i have pointed out and all the gazing at Google Maps and comparing with a LUAS line somewhere else is no substitute.

As for ofjames' points my reply above addresses them.

As for elaboration, it's elaborated upon in the members section discussion.