coolmine station,early train, 50 euro fine

andyl222 · 25-03-2007, 17:51

I was walking to catch the 12.50 train to connolly at coolmine station. I was perhaps 150 metres from thje level crossing when i noticed the barrier was down, signifying a train was coming into the station. It was 12.38 and i assumed it must have been a maynooth bound train, I kept walking at a relaxed pace considering i felt in no real rush. Then as i reached the level crossing the train arrived from the maynooth direction en route to dublin. It was a good 8 minutes early and at first i thought it may have been a maynooth - connolly direct, but alas it was in fact the train i intended to catch. I had an important meeting with a lecturer so I jumped on the train assuming I could just pay when I reached Connolly. They have a new booth in Connolly station, on platform 4, which to all intents and purposes is signposted and manned like a ticket booth. I walked to the booth and addressed the attendant, asking to buy a return ticket to maynooth. He said he couldnt sell me a ticket and asked to see an i.d then proceeded to take my details and hand me a fine for 50 euro. I tried to explain my situation, with the train being early etc and was met with a blank stare and told i could contest the fine if i wanted.... Has anyone had any similar experiences in the recent past???

As far as I know if you get the train on the Maynooth line and board the train without a ticket you can pay at the other end. It seems a simple enough issue. I use the train 5 days a week and have done so for the last 3 years, and only 4 times in that period have i had to pay at the other end due to not havin a ticket beforehand, but surely if I was allowed do so in the past then I should still be allowed. Unless of course IE have changed the rules again, without making a point of signposting it, and as a result are happily threatening their diligent loyal if somewhat unfortunate customers to legal action, unless they fill their coffers with fine money.

Mark Gleeson · 25-03-2007, 18:03

The law has never changed it has been fixed since 1984

If the booking office in Coolmine was open you are legally required to have a ticket. There is no way around that, its enshrined in the law. It doesn't matter when the train was due, the 2007 timetable shows 12:39 as the departure time from Coolmine so it wasn't early

If the booking office was closed or unstaffed you are legally premitted to travel without a ticket

Quote:

4. Where the Board gives notice that a station is unattended or the booking office is closed, or where any person is instructed by an authorised person to board a train at a station without purchasing a ticket at the booking office so as not to delay the departure of the train from the station, any person not in possession of a valid ticket entitling him or her to travel may enter a vehicle at that station for the purpose of travelling but that person must obtain a ticket or other authority from an authorised person on the train as soon as practicable after entering any vehicle or from an authorised person on arrival at the station to which such person is travelling by the train.

If this is the case you are completely correct and Irish Rail by refusing to issue you the ticket you requested in Connolly are breaking the law

Was the booking office open if it was we can take this further and launch all out war

packetswitch · 25-03-2007, 18:49

But if not, I think you're stuck - yes they were wrong in releasing the train early, and you can complain about that, but it's likely (at least given the current attitude on fare evasion, and some other cases discussed on boards.ie) that they would still push for payment. It all turns on whether the ticket office was manned or unmanned. If it was manned, then the early release is unlikely to get you any lighter treatment (although of course you can write and appeal, setting out all the circumstances, and hope for the best). If it was unmanned, you should, as Mark says, be able to challenge it without breaking sweat!

Mark Gleeson · 25-03-2007, 18:58

Sadly in this game with Irish Rail you must play exactly to the rules to win

As packetswitch says if the booking office was unmanned IE have no case and in fact have broken the law themselves by not fullfilling there obligation to sell you a ticket as per section 4 SI 109 1984

The train wasn't early, it was ontime relative to the 2007 timetable, 12:49 was the 2006 time, 12:39 is the 2007 time and isn't a grounds for complaint regardless

ThomasJ · 25-03-2007, 21:15

Just wondering Coolmine has the same issue as Sandymount in a way that people are unable to access the ticket office coming from the RDS when the gates are down but on the city bound platform side of SAndymount station there is an arch/porch with ticket machines and ticket turnstiles. Would it not suit IE to do the same with Coolmine, therefore not giving passengers an excuse not to have a ticket.

Mark Gleeson · 25-03-2007, 21:24

They thought of that, there is temporarily booking office on the Dublin bound side, it also now carries a notice to use the main station if it is closed.

The question remains was the main booking office open?

ThomasJ · 26-03-2007, 11:18

Can i ask why you asked for a return ticket to maynooth at the connolly ticket booth. For one thing there is a difference in fares between maynooth and coolmine. Why pay more. The other thing is maynooth is open all day. This may have confused the guy at the booth. Over the last few weeks coolmine clonsilla castleknock ticket areas shutters were up to enable people to use the ticket vending machines. Clonsilla was closed yesterday so it might be the same with coolmine. But it is hard to tell.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 14:27

The ticket booth on the dublin side was closed and unmanned as per usual. As for the otherside, i wasn't in the ideal position to see, but judging by past experiences it could have been empty at that time of day.
On the topic of the train time being correct,if you check the irishrail.ie timetable you'll see the train is actually listed at 12.50.
I'm actually from Maynooth, I was going into Dublin from my girlfriend's house and was asking for a return ticket so as to get back home after my meeting with my lecturor without havin to stop at another ticket booth. The attendant at the booth who fined me was aware I had gotten on at coolmine (I had neither the foresight nor intention to say I had gotten on at broombridge because in my eyes I honestly expected to be able to buy a ticket).
I can understand having to be strict on fare evasion, but the fact that i did not attempt to leave the platform at connolly without a ticket should surely show i had no intention of not paying.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 14:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

They thought of that, there is temporarily booking office on the Dublin bound side, it also now carries a notice to use the main station if it is closed.

The question remains was the main booking office open?

The circumstances of the situation are : the train was early, I had no time to traverse the walkover bridge further down the platform get to the ticket office buy a ticket and then rush back over the bridge in time to catch the train which stands static for at most 1 and a half minutes.

Regardless of the ticket office being manned or not ( not, being the more reugular at lunch time). It would have been unfeasible due to the level crossing for me to reach the ticket office in time. Remember, I wasnt late, I was early for this train. The walkover bridge from platform to platform is about 100m from the entrance of the platform making it a bit of a lengthy jaunt to try and sprint fior a ticket.

I dont understand why an automated machine cant be put in place of the ticket booth on the dublin side, hell why not leave the big steal grey box there, then place 2 ticket machines in there, then lock the steel container at 6 pm. It would minimise the instances of ticketless passengers due to early trains as the tickets would be within reach in a few seconds.

ThomasJ · 26-03-2007, 15:05

What day and date was this?

Mark Gleeson · 26-03-2007, 15:23

1. We are forced to assume this was Sunday 25/3/2007 as that is implied by the post you first made. The train was not early, you claim it was due at 12:50 at Coolmine. The online timetable planner shows 12:39 (1), the online pdf shows same (2) as does the printed ones and regardless the train being early is not a valid excuse for boarding without a ticket if such was available. A separate avenue of complaint is available for that. That is a separate issue. In fact it would be impossible for a train to be early, the Maynooth line schedule is fairly tight (9.4 miles in 7 minutes with 3 stops impossible). If it was Saturday chances are it was a extra train for the match in Croke Park and the normal scheduled train was in rear on time

2. They only way to avoid the fine is to show that the booking office was closed in Coolmine at the time you boarded the train. Now you can insist that Irish Rail prove such. Note you are under no legal obligation to use a ticket vending machine, the rules specify only booking office (Note CIE had TVM's in 1982 till 1990 ish so they where around when the rules where drawn up)

You can cross by the bridge to the station building if the level crossing is down and there is a notice on the container to do such

To get a result you need to show Irish Rail
1. did not provide a staffed booking office in Coolmine and that
2. contrary to section 4 SI 109 1984 (given 1 occurred) you where refused a ticket

IE will be forced to withdraw the fine if you can show the booking office was closed, the onus is on them to prove it was open since there case hangs on that entirely

(1) http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey...& Details.y=7
(2) http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/your_jo...nooth%2007.pdf

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 18:34

just to clarify it was on tuesday 20th of this month....not sunday. I apologise, I should have been more specific.

Mark Gleeson · 26-03-2007, 19:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by andyl222

just to clarify it was on tuesday 20th of this month....not sunday. I apologise, I should have been more specific.

Ok, this early train is still a mystery, but thats not the issue at hand. There are plenty of notices up on the Maynooth line reminding you to have a ticket.

The ticket office was open almost certainly, I've been to Coolmine at the same time of day recently so I'm happy that the station would be on the balance of probability open.

You are probably best off paying the €50 and being done with it since it has a deadline on it, demand a receipt.

You could complain to both the Revenue Protection Unit Connolly station and the General Manager Northern and Eastern, Connolly station on the grounds that the train was unreasonably early (i.e. negligence on IE's part and in breech of 20.4.1 (*) of the T&C's and customer charter) forcing you into a bad position (like a possible hour wait) and of course prior history suggested that you would be able to pay at the other end.

Now its likely IE will ignore you and refuse to strike the notice out and if you don't pay you will be summoned to court and you never know how that will go. You can pay the fine in person in Connolly.

* http://www.platform11.org/resources/...riage_2004.pdf

ThomasJ · 26-03-2007, 19:19

Possible that the train spotted at that time was a result of earlier delays?

ThomasJ · 26-03-2007, 19:20

Possible that the train spotted at that time was a delayed train

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 19:30

I can see what you mean in reference to IE only listenin in terms of strict regulations, and yes the early train was a mystery, one which landed me in this unfortunate situation. There are several other issues at hand that are really getting on my nerves aswell though, the new ticket booth in connolly that in fairness looks no more like a fine booth than auschwitz looks like butlins, This booth leads anyone in my situation or similar to believe that there is now a specific booth where you can in fact buy your ticket before reaching the new automated turnstiles, little does anyone know that this venture to purchase a ticket will inevitably lead to a fine. It's essentially like going to the post office to get a tv licence and then being fined for not having a tv licence by the person at the counter. If I was to walk into a garda station and ask to get my licence renewed, should I in turn be charged for not having a valid licence?

Another issue that gets me ever more angry is the sudden and erratic change in policy, one weeks its ok to get on the train without a ticket as long as you pay at the other end (before you mention a legislation from the 1980's, bare in mind I'm talking about the multitudes of commuters from everywhere across dublin/north kildare who have had this experience) to all of a sudden showing no mercy,no leniancy and essentially no common sense in relation to the limitless reasons as to why someone may feel they have to board the train without a ticket. It's senseless, and threatening to bring legal action on hardworking diligent users is not the way to stop fare evading, proper staffing at each station would fix all the major issues inherent in that particular problem.

I understand what you're saying Mark, that perhaps just paying the fine and forgetting about it would be best, but why should I? I've broken a paper thin rule that was sporadically and feebily inforced (whenever it suited the particular staff member on a particular day) for the last 25 years, but I haven't done anything WRONG.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 19:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Ok, this early train is still a mystery, but thats not the issue at hand. There are plenty of notices up on the Maynooth line reminding you to have a ticket.

The ticket office was open almost certainly, I've been to Coolmine at the same time of day recently so I'm happy that the station would be on the balance of probability open.

You are probably best off paying the €50 and being done with it since it has a deadline on it, demand a receipt.

You could complain to both the Revenue Protection Unit Connolly station and the General Manager Northern and Eastern, Connolly station on the grounds that the train was unreasonably early (i.e. negligence on IE's part and in breech of 20.4.1 (*) of the T&C's and customer charter) forcing you into a bad position (like a possible hour wait) and of course prior history suggested that you would be able to pay at the other end.

Now its likely IE will ignore you and refuse to strike the notice out and if you don't pay you will be summoned to court and you never know how that will go. You can pay the fine in person in Connolly.

* http://www.platform11.org/resources/...riage_2004.pdf

Oh and on the point of the well signposted warning of having a ticket before getting on the train in Maynooth. The signs say, and I quote "buy a ticket or pay the price"... Could that easily be misconstrued to mean buy a ticket or pay the price at the end of the journey???

Mark Gleeson · 26-03-2007, 19:59

Last thing you want is a criminal conviction which is what you could get if you end up in court. That would mean you could have trouble gaining entry to the US.

The law as it applies has been on the books since the 1880's, the 1984 definition gave the escape clause on sensible grounds. In 2006 SI 576 was inacted under the rail safety act which is more or less the same, it gives no new powers to staff or does it add anything in terms of the offence, it does however explain the penalty fare thing. Since this went in Irish Rail have become a lot more aggressive despite the fact they always had the power to take action against fare evaders.

The law is clear if the station booking office is open you must have a ticket, if you are caught without a ticket in these conditions they have 3 choices, 1. allow you to pay the fare, 2 issue a fixed notice, 3 kick you off. They can pick and choose. I've seen all three approaches in recent times. We are in a no win here since the law gives them options. I'm ready to play a game with IE and see how I'm dealt with by boarding in Broombridge. I know of people who have legitmate reasons for no ticket (no booking office) who where dealt with correctly at the booth, I also know of many who got collared legitimately

If the station is unstaffed they have to allow you to pay the fare, If IE refuse we would be in very quickly consider going to the courts and the minister to vindicate the passengers legal rights. If this had happened to be a Sunday you would almost certainly whould be in this boat.

Now in this case the train was early, you where at the station in reasonable time to obtain a ticket if the train was ontime, you can complain on the grounds Irish Rail broke there own rules and customer charter but its unlikely you will get the notice struck off, it might be but still in there eyes they have caught someone on a train with no ticket who boarded at a staffed station. Given the early train there is definitely a wedge you can use to force IE to do something but I'm sure they can claim the trainset excuse 'its our train we can run it when we like' Bear in mind a trip to court even if you win could end up costing you a lot more than 50 euro in travel and lost time

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 20:19

hmmm I wonder how that would look for IE, dragging an unemployed art student through the irish judicial system because one of their trains was early which in turn forced me to board without a ticket.... I'm no public relations expert, but I'm not sure it would be worth their while in bad publicity. On the subject of criminal conviction, I really don't think that COULD ever happen. If it was a repeat offence, then of course, but as a singular offence with extenuating circumstances I'm sorry a conviction would never happen.

andyl222 · 26-03-2007, 20:23

And as far as I know, if they bring me to court and I win, they pay my legal fees...anyone know if this is the case?

Also just as a purely hypothetical situation, what if I carried a fake ID with me at all times, surely this fine system could never apply to me. Bare in mind that the information that they take is, name, address and phone number. All could be faked as long as u have a corroborating ID no?

25-03-2007, 17:51	#1
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	coolmine station,early train, 50 euro fine I was walking to catch the 12.50 train to connolly at coolmine station. I was perhaps 150 metres from thje level crossing when i noticed the barrier was down, signifying a train was coming into the station. It was 12.38 and i assumed it must have been a maynooth bound train, I kept walking at a relaxed pace considering i felt in no real rush. Then as i reached the level crossing the train arrived from the maynooth direction en route to dublin. It was a good 8 minutes early and at first i thought it may have been a maynooth - connolly direct, but alas it was in fact the train i intended to catch. I had an important meeting with a lecturer so I jumped on the train assuming I could just pay when I reached Connolly. They have a new booth in Connolly station, on platform 4, which to all intents and purposes is signposted and manned like a ticket booth. I walked to the booth and addressed the attendant, asking to buy a return ticket to maynooth. He said he couldnt sell me a ticket and asked to see an i.d then proceeded to take my details and hand me a fine for 50 euro. I tried to explain my situation, with the train being early etc and was met with a blank stare and told i could contest the fine if i wanted.... Has anyone had any similar experiences in the recent past??? As far as I know if you get the train on the Maynooth line and board the train without a ticket you can pay at the other end. It seems a simple enough issue. I use the train 5 days a week and have done so for the last 3 years, and only 4 times in that period have i had to pay at the other end due to not havin a ticket beforehand, but surely if I was allowed do so in the past then I should still be allowed. Unless of course IE have changed the rules again, without making a point of signposting it, and as a result are happily threatening their diligent loyal if somewhat unfortunate customers to legal action, unless they fill their coffers with fine money.

25-03-2007, 18:58	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Sadly in this game with Irish Rail you must play exactly to the rules to win As packetswitch says if the booking office was unmanned IE have no case and in fact have broken the law themselves by not fullfilling there obligation to sell you a ticket as per section 4 SI 109 1984 The train wasn't early, it was ontime relative to the 2007 timetable, 12:49 was the 2006 time, 12:39 is the 2007 time and isn't a grounds for complaint regardless Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 25-03-2007 at 19:47. Reason: correct section of Si 109

25-03-2007, 21:24	#6
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	They thought of that, there is temporarily booking office on the Dublin bound side, it also now carries a notice to use the main station if it is closed. The question remains was the main booking office open? Last edited by Mark Gleeson : 25-03-2007 at 21:28.

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25-03-2007, 18:49	#3
packetswitch Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Posts: 216	But if not, I think you're stuck - yes they were wrong in releasing the train early, and you can complain about that, but it's likely (at least given the current attitude on fare evasion, and some other cases discussed on boards.ie) that they would still push for payment. It all turns on whether the ticket office was manned or unmanned. If it was manned, then the early release is unlikely to get you any lighter treatment (although of course you can write and appeal, setting out all the circumstances, and hope for the best). If it was unmanned, you should, as Mark says, be able to challenge it without breaking sweat!

25-03-2007, 21:15	#5
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Just wondering Coolmine has the same issue as Sandymount in a way that people are unable to access the ticket office coming from the RDS when the gates are down but on the city bound platform side of SAndymount station there is an arch/porch with ticket machines and ticket turnstiles. Would it not suit IE to do the same with Coolmine, therefore not giving passengers an excuse not to have a ticket.

26-03-2007, 11:18	#7
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Can i ask why you asked for a return ticket to maynooth at the connolly ticket booth. For one thing there is a difference in fares between maynooth and coolmine. Why pay more. The other thing is maynooth is open all day. This may have confused the guy at the booth. Over the last few weeks coolmine clonsilla castleknock ticket areas shutters were up to enable people to use the ticket vending machines. Clonsilla was closed yesterday so it might be the same with coolmine. But it is hard to tell.

26-03-2007, 14:27	#8
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	The ticket booth on the dublin side was closed and unmanned as per usual. As for the otherside, i wasn't in the ideal position to see, but judging by past experiences it could have been empty at that time of day. On the topic of the train time being correct,if you check the irishrail.ie timetable you'll see the train is actually listed at 12.50. I'm actually from Maynooth, I was going into Dublin from my girlfriend's house and was asking for a return ticket so as to get back home after my meeting with my lecturor without havin to stop at another ticket booth. The attendant at the booth who fined me was aware I had gotten on at coolmine (I had neither the foresight nor intention to say I had gotten on at broombridge because in my eyes I honestly expected to be able to buy a ticket). I can understand having to be strict on fare evasion, but the fact that i did not attempt to leave the platform at connolly without a ticket should surely show i had no intention of not paying.

26-03-2007, 15:05	#10
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	What day and date was this?

26-03-2007, 15:23	#11
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	1. We are forced to assume this was Sunday 25/3/2007 as that is implied by the post you first made. The train was not early, you claim it was due at 12:50 at Coolmine. The online timetable planner shows 12:39 (1), the online pdf shows same (2) as does the printed ones and regardless the train being early is not a valid excuse for boarding without a ticket if such was available. A separate avenue of complaint is available for that. That is a separate issue. In fact it would be impossible for a train to be early, the Maynooth line schedule is fairly tight (9.4 miles in 7 minutes with 3 stops impossible). If it was Saturday chances are it was a extra train for the match in Croke Park and the normal scheduled train was in rear on time 2. They only way to avoid the fine is to show that the booking office was closed in Coolmine at the time you boarded the train. Now you can insist that Irish Rail prove such. Note you are under no legal obligation to use a ticket vending machine, the rules specify only booking office (Note CIE had TVM's in 1982 till 1990 ish so they where around when the rules where drawn up) You can cross by the bridge to the station building if the level crossing is down and there is a notice on the container to do such To get a result you need to show Irish Rail 1. did not provide a staffed booking office in Coolmine and that 2. contrary to section 4 SI 109 1984 (given 1 occurred) you where refused a ticket IE will be forced to withdraw the fine if you can show the booking office was closed, the onus is on them to prove it was open since there case hangs on that entirely (1) http://www.irishrail.ie/your_journey...& Details.y=7 (2) http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/your_jo...nooth%2007.pdf

26-03-2007, 18:34	#12
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	just to clarify it was on tuesday 20th of this month....not sunday. I apologise, I should have been more specific.

26-03-2007, 19:19	#14
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Possible that the train spotted at that time was a result of earlier delays?

26-03-2007, 19:20	#15
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Possible that the train spotted at that time was a delayed train

26-03-2007, 19:30	#16
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	I can see what you mean in reference to IE only listenin in terms of strict regulations, and yes the early train was a mystery, one which landed me in this unfortunate situation. There are several other issues at hand that are really getting on my nerves aswell though, the new ticket booth in connolly that in fairness looks no more like a fine booth than auschwitz looks like butlins, This booth leads anyone in my situation or similar to believe that there is now a specific booth where you can in fact buy your ticket before reaching the new automated turnstiles, little does anyone know that this venture to purchase a ticket will inevitably lead to a fine. It's essentially like going to the post office to get a tv licence and then being fined for not having a tv licence by the person at the counter. If I was to walk into a garda station and ask to get my licence renewed, should I in turn be charged for not having a valid licence? Another issue that gets me ever more angry is the sudden and erratic change in policy, one weeks its ok to get on the train without a ticket as long as you pay at the other end (before you mention a legislation from the 1980's, bare in mind I'm talking about the multitudes of commuters from everywhere across dublin/north kildare who have had this experience) to all of a sudden showing no mercy,no leniancy and essentially no common sense in relation to the limitless reasons as to why someone may feel they have to board the train without a ticket. It's senseless, and threatening to bring legal action on hardworking diligent users is not the way to stop fare evading, proper staffing at each station would fix all the major issues inherent in that particular problem. I understand what you're saying Mark, that perhaps just paying the fine and forgetting about it would be best, but why should I? I've broken a paper thin rule that was sporadically and feebily inforced (whenever it suited the particular staff member on a particular day) for the last 25 years, but I haven't done anything WRONG.

26-03-2007, 19:59	#18
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Last thing you want is a criminal conviction which is what you could get if you end up in court. That would mean you could have trouble gaining entry to the US. The law as it applies has been on the books since the 1880's, the 1984 definition gave the escape clause on sensible grounds. In 2006 SI 576 was inacted under the rail safety act which is more or less the same, it gives no new powers to staff or does it add anything in terms of the offence, it does however explain the penalty fare thing. Since this went in Irish Rail have become a lot more aggressive despite the fact they always had the power to take action against fare evaders. The law is clear if the station booking office is open you must have a ticket, if you are caught without a ticket in these conditions they have 3 choices, 1. allow you to pay the fare, 2 issue a fixed notice, 3 kick you off. They can pick and choose. I've seen all three approaches in recent times. We are in a no win here since the law gives them options. I'm ready to play a game with IE and see how I'm dealt with by boarding in Broombridge. I know of people who have legitmate reasons for no ticket (no booking office) who where dealt with correctly at the booth, I also know of many who got collared legitimately If the station is unstaffed they have to allow you to pay the fare, If IE refuse we would be in very quickly consider going to the courts and the minister to vindicate the passengers legal rights. If this had happened to be a Sunday you would almost certainly whould be in this boat. Now in this case the train was early, you where at the station in reasonable time to obtain a ticket if the train was ontime, you can complain on the grounds Irish Rail broke there own rules and customer charter but its unlikely you will get the notice struck off, it might be but still in there eyes they have caught someone on a train with no ticket who boarded at a staffed station. Given the early train there is definitely a wedge you can use to force IE to do something but I'm sure they can claim the trainset excuse 'its our train we can run it when we like' Bear in mind a trip to court even if you win could end up costing you a lot more than 50 euro in travel and lost time

26-03-2007, 20:19	#19
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	hmmm I wonder how that would look for IE, dragging an unemployed art student through the irish judicial system because one of their trains was early which in turn forced me to board without a ticket.... I'm no public relations expert, but I'm not sure it would be worth their while in bad publicity. On the subject of criminal conviction, I really don't think that COULD ever happen. If it was a repeat offence, then of course, but as a singular offence with extenuating circumstances I'm sorry a conviction would never happen.

26-03-2007, 20:23	#20
andyl222 Regular Poster Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 55	And as far as I know, if they bring me to court and I win, they pay my legal fees...anyone know if this is the case? Also just as a purely hypothetical situation, what if I carried a fake ID with me at all times, surely this fine system could never apply to me. Bare in mind that the information that they take is, name, address and phone number. All could be faked as long as u have a corroborating ID no?