DOT Announce new trains

[Derek Wheeler]

From DOT website.

Cullen announces funding of €78 million for 33 new intercity railcars to service Athlone, Portlaoise and Carlow


2 March 2007
The Minister for Transport, Martin Cullen T.D. has announced today (Friday 2 March 2007) that he has approved Government funding under Transport 21, of €78 million for new intercity railcars to service Athlone, Portlaoise and Carlow.

Speaking today, the Minister said: "I am delighted to announce that I have approved funding for the acquisition of a further 33 intercity railcars by Iarnród Éireann. These new railcars, which are just the latest in a number of recent orders by Iarnród Éireann, will further improve the quality of rail transport in Ireland. It is a further step in the complete renewal of the railway infrastructure and rolling stock that has been taking place over the past number of years".

The acquisition by Iarnród Éireann of the 33 intercity railcars follows entry into service of 67 carriages (at a cost of €117 million) that are currently providing hourly services on the Dublin - Cork route. In addition, the first of an earlier order of one hundred and fifty new intercity railcars costing €322 million, are due to arrive from Korea into Ireland next week.

The 33 intercity railcars will be used on the outer Dublin commuter belt serving the fast-growing towns of Portlaoise, Athlone and Carlow and will replace the existing Mark 111 Push Pull fleet with a modern fleet of intercity railcars that will come into service in 2008. These 33 railcars will also be manufactured in Korea.

Minister Cullen added: "These 33 new intercity railcars, combined with the Kildare Route Project - which will double the tracks from two to four from Hazelhatch to Cherry Orchard - will lead to a more efficient use of lines, more comfort and greater reliability of service for commuters".

The Minister also said: "I am pleased that as a result of this purchase of 33 railcars, seat capacity on these important routes i.e. to Athlone, Portlaoise and Carlow, will increase by 40%, which should encourage more people to leave their cars behind and to use public transport, which by its very nature is sustainable, to get to and from work. I understand that Iarnród Éireann is also looking at opportunities to increase parking spaces at a number of the stations on these routes".

The Minister concluded: "With entry into service of a total of 183 new intercity railcars, starting to come on stream this year, Iarnród Éireann's intercity fleet under Transport 21, will be a modern high quality fleet comparable with the best in the world".

[Derek Wheeler]

I was speaking with Mark earlier about this and we're in agreement that this is a little misguided. New trains are always welcome, but what's with IEs continued ignorance for getting the right train for the right job.

For a start, if these new trains (and we know what they look like) are to operate the existing commuter services from Athlone, Portlaoise and Carlow, how awkward is it going to be when it comes to loading the high volume commuter traffic through single doorways (as opposed to the preferred double door) Add to this the fact that these trains are not designed to accomodate large amounts of passengers standing and this "great" announcement looks decidely dodgy.

Have IE got it wrong yet again?

[Mark Gleeson]

The doors are issue, we had a chance to buy a suitable regional train, note regional something that is good for say 70-100 mile range and can cope with a reasonable number of standees while still offering a high quailty interior.

I've seen inside the new railcars and they aint going to be standing friendly

Station dwell times are a major issue

There are other issues but I think the RSC have to well worded already

Passengers and crew should be able to ride in (seated and standing) and move about the train with reasonable comfort and safety. The characteristics of the ride should not mean people suffer undue stress, discomfort or injury. The accommodation should be commensurate with the types of service envisaged.

[sean]

Well I think it's a positive development, I mean come on Athlone? Jayzus that's obviously well into long distance territory. I don't know if Athlone was all P/P or has Arrow DMUs running to it but if it did, that was just retarded.

New, high quality trains are always a good thing IMO and for the length of the journey they should aim to seat as many in as much comfort as possible. Even if these cars turn out not to be the best for the job of long-haul commuting, there will definately be a better use for them somewhere else like regional services like Galway to Limerick, or the lightly used lines ex-Limerick - which may well be where some of these cars end up.

It is true that IE has a has a habit of getting the wrong trains for the job, that can be said of just about everything they bought since their inception in 1986, but given what has been said about these railcars, I'm starting to think they're kinda getting the hang of it. Maybe just a bit.

The REAL question is, what happens to those Push Pull Mk3s now?

[hhf8]

are these 33 the options on the previous order?,I thought IE had taken them up already?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by hhf8

are these 33 the options on the previous order?,I thought IE had taken them up already?

As did we, we knew about the first 30 since during our campaign to get proper trains to Sligo we got a written undertaking that a IC railcar was to be allocated to the Sligo line and when I pushed for from where I met a blank that was about a week before IE signed we knew there where more.

Point is someone is now spending a fortune on trains not suitable for intended use. Now I can understand that its a lot easier to order something by adding it on to another order but as it stands today the new railcars have no safety case, no guage clearance etc.

Strangely the perfect train for the job already has a safety case for running in Ireland and has gauge clearance eliminating the risk

Of course note there is nothing on the IE site about this whole thing

[Thomas J Stamp]

I would imagine they'll simply modify the interior for commuting purposes. The fact that there is no actual need to get rid of the mk3 push pulls so fast is irrelevant, i suppose.

[hhf8]

im really not liking the sound of this,these trains better be decent,

btw how come the goverment is throwing money at trains that don't need to be replaced,while dublin bus,bus eireann are in dire need of new buses?

[Mark Gleeson]

IE is not subject to any licensing or competition issues.

Principle problem here is the use of a intercity train on a commuter run, admittedly a long distance one.

Getting off a intercity train in Heuston is a slow process as everyone knows it can be 2-3 minutes before you set foot on the platform, compare this to a suburban type train where you can unload the entire train in under 60 seconds, now try to offload 100+ at Sallins, Newbridge, Kildare etc and you see why the doors issue becomes important in ensuring the fast efficent service

There is nothing wrong with the Mk3 design for intercity use and it can be overhauled to meet all the accessibilty requirements, the cost is about a tenth of a new coach.

So in reality the new trains won't offer a more comfortable experience, they won't offer a interior suitable for standing and a 6 coach Mk3pp set still has more seats and can be fairly sure the ride will still be the best in the fleet again important if you are standing

[hhf8]

there options were?

1)Refurb the pp
2) Buy more IC DMUS
3)buy more 29000,(can they?)

have flash lookin Intercity Dmus probably looks better on posters

[Mark Gleeson]

Or buy the 3CK's NIR have which are perfect for the job

[sean]

You're right, that would probably have been the best.

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by hhf8

im really not liking the sound of this,these trains better be decent,

btw how come the goverment is throwing money at trains that don't need to be replaced,while dublin bus,bus eireann are in dire need of new buses?

Bus Eireann & Dublin Bus in dire need of new buses? huh?? Have I landed in the bus lovers forum or the rail users one?

[Derek Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Or buy the 3CK's NIR have which are perfect for the job

They were the perfect buy for our commuter services up to 70 miles. Comfortable, sleek looking, carpeted interior and most importantly they have double doors and plenty of standing room. I think IE are still stuck in a scenario where the DOT actually decide, on the basis of a quick fix. (especially in election year)

We'll wait and see. Still sounds like a very misguided decision.

[hhf8]

Originally Posted by Oisin88

Bus Eireann & Dublin Bus in dire need of new buses? huh?? Have I landed in the bus lovers forum or the rail users one?

Well if you ever got on a ten year old dublin bus in the pouring rain,and relise its wetter inside the bus than out,Cracking in roofs on buses seem widespread on the routes that i get.