[Article] Some train journeys slower than 20 years ago

[comcor]

Some train journeys slower than 20 years ago
Chris Ashmore and Tim O'Brien

Iarnród Éireann's radical new timetable will come into effect next Sunday, with a record number of new services, but many of its trains are being slowed by gridlock on the tracks.

Despite record investment in new trains and the upgrading of track, journey times on some of the principal routes are actually slower than they were 20 or 30 years ago.

This is largely because the volume of train services in the greater Dublin region is causing congestion. In effect, trains are queuing to get in and out of the city in certain areas.

However, two major infrastructural projects are expected to ease congestion - and improve speeds - in the next few years.

The Kildare Route Project will see an eight-mile section of track southwest of Heuston being doubled from two to four lines. This will enable fast inter-city trains to pass out slower commuter trains that stop at many stations.

A new signalling system in the Dublin Connolly area - plus the opening of the new Docklands station in March - will allow more train paths on routes radiating out to Maynooth/Sligo, Belfast, Rosslare and on Dart services.

According to the new timetable, the fastest train on the Dublin-Cork route will now take two hours 25 minutes - the same as 20 years ago.

The fastest service between Dublin and Tralee will now take three hours 57 minutes.

Back in 1987 (when Iarnród Éireann was formed) the early morning train from Kerry to the capital completed the journey in three hours 35 minutes.

The bulk of the trains from Belfast to Dublin are timetabled to take two hours 10 minutes, only five minutes less than times of almost 30 years ago.

Most trains on the DublinLimerick route are timetabled to take two hours 20 minutes, but 20 years ago the fastest train was 10 minutes quicker.

Times on the Dublin-Sligo line - one of the most criticised in the past when it had numerous speed restrictions be- fore the laying of new track - are still virtually the same as they were 20 years ago.

Back in 1987, the quickest journey time was three hours 10 minutes. Now it will be just five minutes faster. However, most trains call at more stations.

While the new timetable im- proves times on the Galway route, Mayor of Galway Niall Ó Brolcháin yesterday said in some cases the improvement was as low as two minutes.

Iarnród Éireann spokesman Barry Kenny said there had been a 25 per cent rise in passengers in the past two years "and when you are running more trains there will be more congestion".

The new timetable sees 15 direct services to Cork daily from Dublin Heuston operating on the hour from 0700 until 2100. Frequency will be increased on most routes, and there are new Sunday services on the Kildare commuter line, a new Ballina-Castlebar-Westport service, and additional trains for Gorey and Dundalk.

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[Mark Gleeson]

'Congestion' is the IE cover story its bull

The numbers are ours http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...ting_there.php

[comcor]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

'Congestion' is the IE cover story its bull

The numbers are ours http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...ting_there.php

The article was taken from the Irish Times. I'm sure if Platform 11 wanted to contact the journalists in question, they would be interested in hearing the full story.

[Mark Gleeson]

Well the point is its fairly common to see stuff lifted off our site and used in the media with no acknowledgement

I seriously doubt the IT have copies of the timetables and strangely they picked same years we have.

Its more lies from Barry Kenny's office its nothing to do with congestion its to do with ass coverage and targets, trains are slow on Sunday as well...

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Well the point is its fairly common to see stuff lifted off our site and used in the media with no acknowledgement

Getting credit in the media is not as important as making a difference.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Derek will be on The Last Word at 5pm tonight to debate this with Barry Kenny.

[Mark Gleeson]

Listen to the Matt Cooper piece here
http://www.platform11.org/resources/...209-1-2006.mp3

[seamus kilcock]

The Irish Times is incorrect stating the fastest journey time Dublin/Cork is
2hrs 25mins in the new timetable.
Unless I am mistaken the fastest journey time will be 2hrs 45mins.
There was one non stop train in the 'old' timetable on a Sunday that did the trip in 2hrs 25mins.

I agree with Barry Kenny the fact the company was starved of funds until the last 7/8 years. In fact it took the Knockcroghery train derailment, to kick the relevant Minister of the day, Mary O'Rourke and the government in general into action, to invest in upgrading the track and signalling.

I recall about 20 years ago when IE had no replacement rail for worn out rail on the Sligo line - I think it was near Edgeworthstown.
Rail had to be 'borrowed' from the Tuam (closed by this time) line!!!

I do agree with Derek Wheeler when he stated during the Matt Cooper interview customer relations need big improvement and it will not cost very much to do so. It is obvious from BK's comments that Platform 11 is being listened to.

'We are the customers and we pay your wages Barry and Co'.

[Mark Gleeson]

Point Derek was trying to take up with Barry was, after all the investment, 1 billion euro odd they are still very significant issues to be resolved, why wasn't Portarlington, Ballybrophy, Lisduff, Limerick Junction etc sorted out 5 years ago?

Those combined at worth 10 minutes to all Dublin Cork and Tralee and 5-8 minutes for Limerick

[IHIR]

hi

unfortunately missed derek and barry chatting on matt copper yesterday, any chance of a quick summary? and fair play to you derek

i presume you were on the phone, would be interesting to get barry kenny sitting across from you in the studio on george hook or something and get people to ring in with their stories (good and bad) about irish rail. They seem to think the new trains are the ultimate fix. 2hrs 25 mins to go 160 miles is a disgrace still. SHould be no reason why it cant be done in 90 mins.

[Mark Gleeson]

They where face to face in Today FM

Whole thing as a mp3
http://www.platform11.org/resources/...209-1-2006.mp3

The view is is the obvious track issues are cleared 2:20 with 3 stops

90 minutes would require a 125-130 mph capable train non stop

Was the usual Barry new trains are the cure for cancer gig even solves ticket prices

[MrX]

I cannot understand why Irish Rail are not making use of tilting trains. The logical choice for the Cork-Dublin line would have been a fleet of fast tilting DMUs along the line of the Pendolino which is gaining a lot of popularity around Europe.

CIE have purchased coaches that are pretty much just modern versions of what they already had. The specifications are almost identical to the MK3 coaches they bought in the 1980s - All they've done is added "push-pull" capability and a few bells and 21st century bells and whistles that are really only superficial enhancements. The core technology is the same - a conventional train! OK, they do have the advantage of being upgradable to full 125mph operation, but that hasn't even been done!

It's a bit like buying a new merc, but not buying the engine, then toeing it behind a 1992 pick up truck.

What's the point of just ignoring 20 years of technological innovation ?

Also, the new Mitsui trains are limited to 100mph and don't tilt either!?

Again, even if 50% of them could tilt and get up to 125mph we'd be looking at more possibilities over their lifetime.

CIE's purchasing policy has now locked us in to a situation where by we're stuck with very conventional railway technology for the next 20+ years!

Getting the Cork line up to 125mph with the new Cork train's quite possible, but it's arguable that it wouldn't have needed to have had so much line work, particularly re-allignment of curves, carried out if they'd gone with tilt technology.

I'm sure these new Mitsui DMUs will provide enhanced service and better levels of on-board comfort, but they're not thinking very far "outside the box"

IE was grossly underfunded though.

What exactly spurred the investment in the 1983/84 period ? There was a big pouring of cash in .. DART and the MK3 project..?
MK3 was a reaction to the Buttivant crash ?... DART was pretty inspired though for the dark days of the 1980s.
Seems that there was nothing spent between then until Mary O'Rourke started authorising funding for new DARTs, arrow/commuter etc etc.

I think a lot of the problems though are no longer directly funding related. They have access to quite a bit of cash thesedays, it's more down to CIE management. The quality of service across the companies can be abysmal and it's nothing to do with poor infrastructure / fleet. They need to work on those issues to get more universally customer focused.

I would complement them on the Cork service though. The customer service has improved by leaps and bounds. I just hope they manage to keep up the momentum across the rest of the network!

They could obviously do with more funding for capital projects etc, but they're certainly no longer strapped for cash like they used to be. I think they need to snap out of that doing everything on a shoe string mentality too. E.g. not ordering power cars for Cork-Dublin!?!

[seamus kilcock]

Please advise what Dublin Cork service is timed at 2hrs 25mins on the new timetable operative from Sunday 14th january 2007?

A lot of people including the I.T. reporters are stating there is a 2hr 25mins service but I am unable to find it.

There was a Sunday non stop 2hrs 25mins service up to last Sunday 7th Jan -but this is now history.

Looking forward to clarification that hopefully will prove I am still able to read a timetable correctly!

[Mark Gleeson]

Quickest time is 2:45

Fastest in 2006 was 2:25

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by MrX

I cannot understand why Irish Rail are not making use of tilting trains. The logical choice for the Cork-Dublin line would have been a fleet of fast tilting DMUs along the line of the Pendolino which is gaining a lot of popularity around Europe.

CIE have purchased coaches that are pretty much just modern versions of what they already had........ OK, they do have the advantage of being upgradable to full 125mph operation, but that hasn't even been done!

The existing Mk3 carraiges are 125 capable, so that cannot be the reason, its simply that they look nice and modern, and they have a few bells and whistles. We're tired pointing out theres nothing new at all about these carraiges, nothing.

DART just had to be done, the existing commuter rail stsock at the time was apparently very close to self destruction.

IE was throwing the baby out with the bathwater with the Mk3s, yes get rid of all slam door carraiges, they are not acceptable, but faced with a choice of shiny new kit or refurbishing the existing kit they went for the new kit.

There arent enough Mk3 to do the whole country, fine, once the others go. They will keep the citygold sets for Enterprise (proably refurbish them to match) and may sell off the rest, when they could keep them for, example, Limerick or Galway as a dedicated branded service.

IE seem to be in a big rush to get rid of all Loco hauled services, that appears to be the line of thought and it appears to be faddish to say the least - they have a stock of over 30 locos which are only ten years old. Whilst some of them will be needed for Enterprise and Cork services the rest will not (not to mention the abaondonment of the other types of Locos as well) and in the medium term even these face being got rid of (power cars on Cork, possible HST2 on Enterprise).

Now, we been havign this debate for years hear about this trend, the only way we'll know if it is good or not is when the Intercity DMU's come in this year. However, one thing is clear, freight will be gone (not that there is much there anyway) as there will be nothing to operate it.

What is also clear is that IE are, kit wise, in an unenviable position. They got the 201s in mid 90's as a final Loco order for a period of 30 years, and at the time the service was on its last lets and there were genuine concerns that IE was going to the wall intercity wise anyway. Perhaps they would have chosen a DMU solution then (that was also the time when the 2700's were bought) and it seems that now there is a bit of money around they are trying to replace everything whilst the going is good and hope that it'll last 30-40 years and try to recoup some money by selling the locos they can off now with some residual value left.

[MrX]

Who would buy those locos though? They're a bit of a strange beast and surely couldn't be worth THAT much money at this stage. Would there be any point in selling them?

Aren't MK3 only rated for 100mph service when hauled though?

I though some modifications have to be made to couplings, brakes etc so that they can do HST service.

[IHIR]

Originally Posted by MrX

I would complement them on the Cork service though. The customer service has improved by leaps and bounds.

I dont agree with that, thats the way it should have been in the first place so the fact that its now some sort of decent service doesnt excuse them, its just that we are used to rubbish service and when it improves a bit it makes them look better

[MrX]

I don't agree with attacking genuine improvements. Yes, the service should have been better in the past, but we're talking about the present day. The service *has* improved and become much more customer focused and I do think that Irish Rail get credit for having done that.

There's no point in harping on endlessly about how bad things were. I'm more concerned about how bad things *are* right now on other lines.

The improved customer service on the Cork services is a new benchmark for Iarnrod Eireann. The focus should be on making sure that other lines start to achieve similar levels of service.

[Mark Gleeson]

I have a list infront of me of 15 issues Dublin Cork, 9 are in some way staff or proceedure related

Point is the Cork service looks exceptional compared to the rest of Irish Rail but its really just the base line of what you should expect, far far too many simple things are going wrong out there, the catering trolley seems to vanish for a start, seat reservations are still a joke

For decades we where happy to get there on time, now the soft issues are growing in importance

Fastest Dublin Cork time ever 2:07 March 1986, that was unoffically replicated with passengers several times in 1996/7 Cork Dublin which is arguably the harder journey

[MrX]

The biggest problem that Irish Rail have is an inability to provide uniformity of service.

If you pay €61 for a standard intercity fare you should be able to guarantee a level of service regardless of time of day.
Most of these variations are coming down to Network Catering and their inability to operate a simple catering service.

1) Snack car not properly stocked (regularly) - vital items missing
2) Trolley service randomly withdrawn for no reason.
3) Rude staff / questionable hygeine standards (particularly on older fleet e.g. warm sandwiches)
4) Closing the catering service down well before the end of the journey. i.e. it tends to close at Kildare or even PORTLAOIS en route to Dublin and at or before Mallow en route to Cork. I have no idea why this is the case!

Also, why do some trains have full restaurant service while others have very poor snack car service? Again.. total lack of uniformity.

Network Catering should be a cash cow. If it were contracted out to someone else, they could definitely run it at a healthy profit. Particularly, on a busy line like Cork.

I have to say that in my experience of the CDE, the seat booking has worked each time without fail. Perhaps I've just been very lucky.
However, if it does fail, they really need to have people on board checking tickets and making sure seats are filled correctly. It's only 2 or 3 coaches. Not that difficult to organise really.