[article] - 13.00 Heuston/Cork Failure 1 August

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-31435856.html

How Irish Rail left passengers in limbo on busiest weekend of year
When network suffered major bank holiday delay, there was neither information nor a staff member in sight

We're among 5,000 passengers enjoying the summer sunshine in stations across the country after a train broke down, paralysing the network.

More than 25 trains leaving Heuston Station are delayed for a minimum of 30 minutes. I'm waiting on the Galway train, which ends up being three hours late.

It's the worst delay of the year, but Irish Rail doesn't feel the need to tell anyone what's happening.

FYI - I would phrase it as "More than 25 trains leaving Heuston Station were delayed for a minimum of 3 hours!

Irish Rail is unable to communicate with customers in dozens of stations across the country unless a staff member is present.

The company has admitted that large parts of the network are communications blackspots, as controllers are only able to tap into public announcement (PA) systems in a limited number of stations to alert passengers of delays or cancellations.

A detailed plan for customer information systems, including screens at all stations, centralised PA and interactive displays, would cost up to €30m, he said. Cheaper options were being considered as a short-term solution.

"We have centralised PA from our Dublin Central Traffic Control covering the entire DART network, northern line to Dundalk, then lines to Maynooth and M3 Parkway, Rathdrum and Monasterevin," he said.

"We have centralised PA in Mallow and Athlone also. Athlone covers stations between Ennis and Athenry, and Mallow covers the Midleton line.

Over 3 hours to get a replacement locomotive it's like it gets longer and longer as each failure happens and the closer to Dublin. There was absolutely no power in the locomotive after it shut down so a replacement should be been sent to haul it back to Kildare or push it into Portarlington loop.

If IE were through to form I bet they decided to bring the locomotive, removed the failed one to Portarlington and ran back and continued to Cork. You know the way to that causes the most disruption and inconvenience to passengers.....

They really seem to hate hauling services, back a few years ago and you had 2700 hauling failed 22000 and so on but today it's we need to fix on the spot. Anyone remember a number of years ago a 201 was driving a Cork-Dublin service after the DVT failed en route and the pushing loco was kept on.

Am I missing something as to why the have changed have the RSC for example told them they can't?/

[Eddie]

The section of track where the breakdown occurred would appear to be common to 5 lines: Dublin to Cork, Galway, Limerick, Tralee and Westport.

It would be interesting to understand how much more quickly the locomotive might have been cleared if the network was privatised, seeing as it's on the cards anyway. I suspect compensation would be due by the company operating the offending train to the network operator and / or other company's operating trains stuck behind (who have to pay compensation to passengers). This motivating force would seem like one of the beneficial sides to privatisation to me.

Anyone know how similar situations are handled in the UK?

[Jamie2k9]

The section of track where the breakdown occurred would appear to be common to 5 lines: Dublin to Cork, Galway, Limerick, Tralee and Westport.

It would be interesting to understand how much more quickly the locomotive might have been cleared if the network was privatised, seeing as it's on the cards anyway. I suspect compensation would be due by the company operating the offending train to the network operator and / or other company's operating trains stuck behind (who have to pay compensation to passengers). This motivating force would seem like one of the beneficial sides to privatisation to me.

Anyone know how similar situations are handled in the UK?

A good estimate of the failure was at 13.40, a locomotive should of been readily available so lets say you allow 15 minutes to see if it's a minor fault so realistically the driver of the 14.00 to Cork should of been sent (if not others spare) and hauled the train back into the center line at Kildare, if IE got themselves together full services should of resumed at 15.00. IE have been capable in the past of removing freight failures in the same area with 1.5 hours.

In the UK rail operators are fined for delays/failures and time taken. Only on the news this evening Network Rail were fined 2 million in the last year because operators were forced to cancel or delay services. Worth noting the majority of trains in the UK are DMU's and the HST services can run on one engine so I expect full failures are not a major issue + lots of lines interconnect to make things easier.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Eddie

The section of track where the breakdown occurred would appear to be common to 5 lines: Dublin to Cork, Galway, Limerick, Tralee and Westport.

It would be interesting to understand how much more quickly the locomotive might have been cleared if the network was privatised, seeing as it's on the cards anyway. I suspect compensation would be due by the company operating the offending train to the network operator and / or other company's operating trains stuck behind (who have to pay compensation to passengers). This motivating force would seem like one of the beneficial sides to privatisation to me.

Anyone know how similar situations are handled in the UK?

Unfortunately when a train fails it's inevitable that there are going to be delays. That's no different in the UK to here. An HST failed outside Truro last week when on an early morning Penzance-Paddington service. The result? Trains were either delayed for up to three hours or cancelled altogether.

None of us know the exact nature of the failure so saying x or y should have happened is frankly daft.

What this did expose, however, was an appalling lack of customer service in not being able to advise passengers at a major junction station such as Portarlington as to what had happened.

Not staffing major Intercity stations such as this is ludicrous.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

What this did expose, however, was an appalling lack of customer service in not being able to advise passengers at a major junction station such as Portarlington as to what had happened.

Not staffing major Intercity stations such as this is ludicrous.

Having digital displays of next trains would presumably have helped, and can inform of delays, like the Dart.

Sometimes the Dart uses audio platform announcements, though these can often be difficult to make any sense of.

[Jamie2k9]

Unfortunately when a train fails it's inevitable that there are going to be delays. That's no different in the UK to here. An HST failed outside Truro last week when on an early morning Penzance-Paddington service. The result? Trains were either delayed for up to three hours or cancelled altogether.

None of us know the exact nature of the failure so saying x or y should have happened is frankly daft.

What this did expose, however, was an appalling lack of customer service in not being able to advise passengers at a major junction station such as Portarlington as to what had happened.

Not staffing major Intercity stations such as this is ludicrous.

Your are quiet right we don't know the exact issues but we do know 234 shut down. The simple fact is we are here over and over again and IE seem to learn nothing. The train should of been moved a lot sooner and there is no excuses.

You speak of the UK, yes some failures happen but FGW will be fined thousands and by will they do everything to ensure it doesn't happen again, what will IE do....process refunds next time and time and time again.

IE are not doing enough quickly enough and until this changes we will be here again.

This exposed noting that me or any member of the public didn't know already and an article in the Indo won't change anything.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

Your are quiet right we don't know the exact issues but we do know 234 shut down. The simple fact is we are here over and over again and IE seem to learn nothing. The train should of been moved a lot sooner and there is no excuses.

You speak of the UK, yes some failures happen but FGW will be fined thousands and by will they do everything to ensure it doesn't happen again, what will IE do....process refunds next time and time and time again.

IE are not doing enough quickly enough and until this changes we will be here again.

This exposed noting that me or any member of the public didn't know already and an article in the Indo won't change anything.

Some failures happen in the UK?

It happens more than you seem to think, and generally results in long delays for customers (several hours).

The difference is that they manage communication with customers somewhat better.

[grainne whale]

Originally Posted by berneyarms

Some failures happen in the UK?

It happens more than you seem to think, and generally results in long delays for customers (several hours).

The difference is that they manage communication with customers somewhat better.

I commute to and from Hazelhatch daily, hardly a week goes by but there is some sort of a delay: a train or signal failure. Considering the length of track that IR have they are very lax - mabe it's a failure to carry out proper maintenance.

[James Howard]

It is hard to know if it is just better media reporting, but the incidence of multi-hour delays seems to have grown a lot over the last few years. But maybe this is because the network is being run a lot closer to capacity these ways than it was 10 years ago.

When I started commuting there were 4 or 5 Sligo services each way per day and two Longford services. Now we have two-hourly service to Sligo most of the day, and hourly service down to Longford (with an extra commuter service) from 3:05 to 7:05. While it probably hasn't been quite so dramatic, there has been a significant increase in frequency out of Heuston. So now instead of it being a simple matter of running a loco down to rescue a dead train, the rescuer has to pass two or three other trains stuck behind the dead service. So a lot of time, it probably is simpler to get the dead service limping on site rather than trying to haul it out.

The worse delay I ever had was about 10 years ago near Inny Junction where a loco-hauled service hit a herd of cattle. Despite there being another loco in Edgeworthstown waiting for us to cross, it took them about 2 hours to get us hauled about 8km to Edgeworthstown because the brakes were partially stuck on the damaged train. If it was a matter of having to get us further, it would probably have been simpler to get it patched on site.

[Jamie2k9]

So now instead of it being a simple matter of running a loco down to rescue a dead train, the rescuer has to pass two or three other trains stuck behind the dead service. So a lot of time, it probably is simpler to get the dead service limping on site rather than trying to haul it out.

There was two trains behind it 13.15 (Waterford) which got away with a delay and 13.25 (Galway) which could of ran to Newbridge/Kildare and cleared the way for the loco. Anyway there is usually 071's hanging around Portlaoise yard that could of moved it if there was congestion behind.

There is also single line working which I understand was not in affect which would of helped things as inbound were largely un affected. Been a Saturday less CTC staff could be an issue?

I am not expecting no delays but I also don't expect to see what happened over and over again.

The worse delay I ever had was about 10 years ago near Inny Junction where a loco-hauled service hit a herd of cattle. Despite there being another loco in Edgeworthstown waiting for us to cross, it took them about 2 hours to get us hauled about 8km to Edgeworthstown because the brakes were partially stuck on the damaged train. If it was a matter of having to get us further, it would probably have been simpler to get it patched on site.

Fully understandable but an exceptional issue, I only recall 2 delays in recent years 2009 (Waterfod) and 2014 (Cork). You got away lightly comapred to the recent 2.

The only thing they have learned over the last 3 years or so is not to stack trains up but stop at stations where at all possible. About time they decided to take something else on board and put it into practice for the next time that will benefit customers and cut down delays.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

There was two trains behind it 13.15 (Waterford) which got away with a delay and 13.25 (Galway) which could of ran to Newbridge/Kildare and cleared the way for the loco. Anyway there is usually 071's hanging around Portlaoise yard that could of moved it if there was congestion behind.

There is also single line working which I understand was not in affect which would of helped things as inbound were largely un affected. Been a Saturday less CTC staff could be an issue?

I am not expecting no delays but I also don't expect to see what happened over and over again.

Fully understandable but an exceptional issue, I only recall 2 delays in recent years 2009 (Waterfod) and 2014 (Cork). You got away lightly comapred to the recent 2.

The only thing they have learned over the last 3 years or so is not to stack trains up but stop at stations where at all possible. About time they decided to take something else on board and put it into practice for the next time that will benefit customers and cut down delays.

Would there have been a driver readily available to bring a loco down - that's another consideration.There aren't spare drivers sitting around in any great numbers anymore as I understand it. Similarly, would a pilotman be readily available for single track operation.

It's usually not as simple as "x, y and z should have happened" at the time.

But again the first focus should be on getting better flows of information - at the very least to explain to people what the reason for the delay is.

None of us know the exact detail of who/what was available, so any ideas about what could or could not be done is pure speculation.

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by James Howard

It is hard to know if it is just better media reporting, but the incidence of multi-hour delays seems to have grown a lot over the last few years. But maybe this is because the network is being run a lot closer to capacity these ways than it was 10 years ago.

When I started commuting there were 4 or 5 Sligo services each way per day and two Longford services. Now we have two-hourly service to Sligo most of the day, and hourly service down to Longford (with an extra commuter service) from 3:05 to 7:05. While it probably hasn't been quite so dramatic, there has been a significant increase in frequency out of Heuston. So now instead of it being a simple matter of running a loco down to rescue a dead train, the rescuer has to pass two or three other trains stuck behind the dead service. So a lot of time, it probably is simpler to get the dead service limping on site rather than trying to haul it out.

The worse delay I ever had was about 10 years ago near Inny Junction where a loco-hauled service hit a herd of cattle. Despite there being another loco in Edgeworthstown waiting for us to cross, it took them about 2 hours to get us hauled about 8km to Edgeworthstown because the brakes were partially stuck on the damaged train. If it was a matter of having to get us further, it would probably have been simpler to get it patched on site.

I think that's a very fair post.