Passenger asked to move seats calls Guards!

Jamie2k9 · 06-02-2015, 23:30

A passegner on the 17.05 to Sligo called the guards after she was asked to move from a "pre booked" seat.

http://www.irishexaminer.com/examvir...te-311167.html

Quote:

Most of us have been in the uncomfortable position of moving someone from our prebooked train seats - but this might be the first time the gardaÃ* have been involved.

A female passenger on the 17.05 Dublin Connolly to Sligo train today took offence at a man politely asking her to move from a seat he had prebooked for the journey.

What followed surprised nearby passengers, including Shane Gillen, who has been tweeting about his experience.

The train stopped at Maynooth and an announcement informed passengers that there would be "a short delay here as we await the Gardai to attend the train."

No Reservation System working.....

James Howard · 07-02-2015, 10:08

I was on that train but not on the same carriage, and checked out Irish Rail's twitter feed to see what info was up there. The girl involved appears to have tweeted Irish Rail to complain about the guy involved drinking heavily as part of a group. She has protected her twitter feed now, but hadn't yesterday and most of her previous tweets seemed to have been abusing Irish Rail about various failings.

The whole thing seems quite odd and the train wasn't even seriously delayed. It made up whatever time it lost by Edgeworthstown. It only ended up in a paper because a local journo was in the same carriage.

Irish Rail really need to think about giving up seat reservations on the Sligo line. This was the Friday 1705 - the busiest train of the week and there was no ticket collector on the train. Even if there was, it is 50 - 50 if he is in the right half of the train, so there basically nobody there to enforce bookings. At the very least they should go back to charging an extra couple of quid for seat reservations as a lot of people don't even sit in their reserved seats so the whole situation is a mess.

And since the indicators don't work about 10 - 20% of the time or they switch them on five minutes before departure, it is just a recipe for a row. I personally don't sit in reserved seats but if I find myself in one by accident because the indicator wasn't working or it lit up after I sat down, I just stick to the 20 minutes before departure rule.

berneyarms · 07-02-2015, 10:22

That 20 minute rule really ought to be consigned to history. It's utterly out of date in this day and age.

I'm not aware of any other rail operator that has such a policy.

Jamie2k9 · 07-02-2015, 12:55

If IE had a system that functions which we still seem waiting 8 years and counting for problems would be a lot less.

I wouldn't get out of a reserved seat either but I would tell the passenger apply for a refund.

IE lose lots of money but they don't seem bothered, guess when you have the taxpayers money tap its ok.

James Howard · 07-02-2015, 17:28

The only part of Irish Rail's booking policy for the Sligo line that makes any sense is the 20 minute rule. The system simply does not work and leads to arguments and disgruntled customers as it currently stands as Irish Rail are failing to meet the expectations of those who have booked and those who haven't. The specific failures are

1. The system fails altogether about 10% of the time. About another 10 to 20% of journeys I take, it is late switched on, or has the wrong names in it.
2. They have nobody to enforce it and settle disputes
3. Bookings are given for free with on-line ticket sales. As a result a significant proportion of people booking tickets do not take their seats.

It is hard to know precisely how many people are not taking up their bookings but on the 1905, it would no be far off half of the booked seats unoccupied leaving Maynooth. I think it is fairly safe to say that relatively few people book tickets from Connolly to Maynooth. It would really help matters by going back to the old system where a seat reservation cost a few euro on top of the fare.

As a commuter, I never have a booking but I generally make sure I am 20 minutes early for the train so that I can get a seat. As such, it is perfectly reasonable that if I sit in a seat with no reservation indicated than I basically have as much right to that seat as anybody else especially when the conditions of carriage state this. That being said, I will move if the person with the booking is being a right snot about it and there is another seat available but the majority of people are reasonable and take the other seat once it is pointed out.

One thing Irish Rail could do that would help enormously would be to designate one carriage for bookings (this would specifically NOT be the accessible one) as the toilet facilities and wheelchair spaces tend to be needed by either elderly people travelling on passes with no bookings or by wheelchair users who will have booked through special channels. This would at least help the commuters as they would know not to use that carriage.

James Howard · 07-02-2015, 17:44

One other thing - if I had a bit of a brass neck, I could probably get myself a free trip as far as Mullingar on the 1705 by booking a seat, sitting in it and then claiming that it was occupied. Since Irish Rail have no ticket checker on the train, how are they going to know if there were people standing as far as Mullingar which is usually the case on that train.

berneyarms · 07-02-2015, 17:53

I will disagree with you about the so called 20 minute rule.

If someone has a seat reservation they should not have to be at the departure station 20 minutes before the train is due to depart. It is just plain daft in this day and age.

Why should anyone with a reserved seat not have the right to take their seat up until departure, as is the case across the water and indeed on the continent?

Adding that extra time means trains are even competitive with other modes.

However, one thing I really think IE have to address is having frontline staff on board every Intercity train - it's ok for commuter/DART to be driver only, but not in my opinion for Intercity trains.

Jamie2k9 · 08-02-2015, 01:10

I don't buy the 20 minute rule argument. If the system is not working on board then IE could take steps to reduce the impact on customers.

1 - Manually display stickers
2 - Make an announcement prior to platform being confirmed and advising passengers must move from seats if a passenger displays a ticket saying it is reserved and failure to do so will result in a fine or invalid ticket as the seat is already sold. (if not in by laws then make it a by law)
3 - One of the many staff who stand around not doing a lot can be present around the platform area to deal with any customer issues.

Quote:

One thing Irish Rail could do that would help enormously would be to designate one carriage for bookings (this would specifically NOT be the accessible one) as the toilet facilities and wheelchair spaces tend to be needed by either elderly people travelling on passes with no bookings or by wheelchair users who will have booked through special channels. This would at least help the commuters as they would know not to use that carriage.

Maybe on particular busy services but not across the board. The route of the problem is no displays or switching them on whenever the driver arrives usually 5-10 minutes before departure.

Inniskeen · 08-02-2015, 17:00

To my mind having to turn up 20 minutes early to claim your seat is ridiculous. Generally speaking if you turn up 20 minutes early there is bags of room but according to the rules if I turn up 19 minutes early I can tell the person who turns up 15 minutes early to claim their seat to get lost. Will Irish Rail back me up ? I doubt it !

The 20 minutes rule only adds to the confusion and aggro around seat reservations to the extent that I never bother reserving a seat and will happily stand on the odd occasion when I can't find either an used reserved seat or an unreserved seat. If somebody claims their reserved seat I will vacate it without question. If somebody claims an unmarked reserved seat I will probably vacate that also unless the approach is unduly aggressive.

I typically board a service a few minutes before departure so a reservation would be waste of money (I have an annual ticket).

James Howard · 08-02-2015, 19:47

I actually agree that the 20 minute rule is a stupid idea in an ideal world. But given the mess that seat reservations are on the Sligo line, it provides a reasonable way to settle most arguments unless one of the parties is a nutter. Personally, I don't sit in reserved seats even when it is less than 20 minutes to go but I am reluctant to move if there is a fault with the system.

The way seat reservations work in practice on the Sligo line is different to other lines where they have been available for a long time and people are used to them. This has been made worse since they stopped charging extra for seat reservations as now a substantial minority doesn't even take up their reserved seats.

Irish Rail really need to sort out the issues with the electronic reservations and allocate a couple of staff members to manage the boarding process as it is currently a mess. Going to paper reservation slips is unnecessary and labour-intensive - they just need to have staff available (and this needs to be three or four during a settling in period).

They could fund this by having one of the staff members be a ticket-checker as it is simply idiotic to have the peak student train operate without a ticket-checker. If this continues, you'll find about 20% of the passengers on this train travelling on Sydney Parade to Booterstown tickets.

The other option would be to simply abandon seat reservations on the Sligo line. It managed perfectly fine this way for at least 20 years so I'm not sure why it is suddenly necessary now. It can't go on the way it is currently - sooner or later sooner is going to get injured or worse due to an argument caused by this.

Jamie2k9 · 08-02-2015, 22:09

Quote:

Going to paper reservation slips is unnecessary and labour-intensive

With respect, staff are employed by a company to do a days work. Lets be honest there will usually not be a major level of bookings. No more than 50 easily. A job that would take 10 minutes if that.

Quote:

The other option would be to simply abandon seat reservations on the Sligo line.

Would kill traffic outside of the commuter belt.

James Howard · 09-02-2015, 08:10

I think that getting rid of seat reservations on the Sligo line would have zero effect on traffic inside our outside the commuter belt. This impression is based on the fact that a large number of booked seats go occupied or are occupied by somebody obviously not matching the booking (different gender). There is no tradition of booking on the Sligo line so people are not able to cope with it. Since there is an hourly down service for most of the afternoon, I suspect the majority of people prefer the flexibility of an open return over the advantages of an booked seat. There tends to be a lot more bookings on the evening down trains.

Nevertheless, I don't personally have a problem with booking so long as the system actually works. The present system does not work and I think the reason is a combination of Irish Rail being too short-staffed to be able to switch it on in a timely manner. The automatic shutdown of the 22Ks probably doesn't help matters either. The presence or absence of paper booking slips is a red herring and would not make the blindest bit of difference.

A half-assed booking system with no enforcement is ultimately far worse for customers than no system at all. This enforcement needs to cut both ways and involve fines. If you have a booking, you should be fined for not taking the seat and if you don't have a booking you should be fine for taking the seat. The seat displays should work all of the time and Irish Rail should be forced to refund the price of a ticket for anyone whose booking doesn't appear.

If this was all in place, they should then get rid of the 20 minute rule which makes bookings almost entirely pointless on the Sligo line as there is no train where you won't get a seat if you turn up 20 minutes before departure.

Jamie2k9 · 11-02-2015, 19:24

On the 19.20 ex Cork and reservation system broken however stickers have being placed on reserved seats!

James
22 shutdowns before departure in some cases for drivers to start all engines shouldnt affect the system. Happened earlier in Heuston and reservations didn't disappear. Either its operated by the batteries or backed up by them. I do think its driver dependent as some seem to conpletly shut down and others seem to keep lighting, air con, reservation system working.

James Howard · 12-02-2015, 08:14

I've definitely seen bookings disappear on a restart more than one, but perhaps it was co-incidence. What goes on and off does not seem to be consistent - perhaps it could also be related to software versions.

I have never seen paper reservation slips on the Sligo line - I think things are just done differently out of Connolly. Neither the passengers nor Irish Rail appear to take reservations terribly seriously and this is probably the root cause of these disagreements.

It really wouldn't be terribly difficult for Irish Rail to put a couple of people on the train while it is boarding to help matters. There always seems to be three or four Irish Rail staff members floating about in Connolly in addition to those needed for the booking office, info desk and the ticket gates.

dowlingm · 17-02-2015, 17:30

To my mind, it's going to be hard to make this work without one/other (or both) of the following:

1. All seats are assigned in all carriages with any reserved seating. That's how it works on VIA Rail and on airlines. No reservation = no seat in that carriage unless on board staff can both check and update the manifest from an electronic device and issue a receipt to the passenger. This may bother the people with open returns but there should be pressure on IE to enforce some requirements on them beyond "rock up and find a seat".
2. Where IE seek to charge for a seat reservation, they must employ resources (staff) to ensure the system works and that reservations are honoured. If initial improvement efforts fail to bring a result within reasonable expectations based on comparable rail operations elsewhere, the NTA should direct them to cease offering reservations on all unstaffed trains.

James Howard · 17-02-2015, 18:01

I agree 100% that option 2 is definitely very sensible but there are serious issues with mandatory bookings. If they could be done at zero cost for pass-holders, they might be a runner but any mandatory booking system puts the interests of commuters against those of occasional travellers. Any business that treats its best customers worse than the occasional user is doomed to failure.

Like most long distance commuters, I would physically be unable to continue commuting if I had to stand for 90 minutes each way every day. It would also tilt the balance of convenience in my journey towards using the car. The marginal cost of having to pay 6 or 10 euro a day for reservations both ways would also finish off my household budget. So effectively, Irish Rail would lose 4 grand a year from my commuter pass. For social welfare passes, it would be politically impossible to charge the holder a tenner return for a seat.

On the Sligo line, long-distance commuters probably account for at least a quarter of revenue so our interests cannot be ignored in this matter. Similarly a large chunk of revenue is coming from the social welfare passes. At the moment bookings would account for about 5% of the business on the Sligo line so it would be utterly dumb for Irish Rail to do something that looks after seat bookers at the expense of the pass-holders would account for more than 50% of revenue. Another 45% of revenue comes from the rock-up and go day return buyers and/or students, leaving the balance of 5% coming from on-line bookings.

Each line is different - the main point for the Sligo line is that walk-ups are generally the same price as bookings so very few people book as the booking ties you to particular trains. In addition, most stations on the line have had on-line booking facilities for less than a year so people are not used to it. Another oddity of the Sligo line is that commuter passes are proportionally more valuable to Irish Rail than occasional travellers than on the Heuston services. It currently takes 15 day returns before you've spent more than a cash monthly pass. All of this means that for the Sligo line only, it is more in Irish Rail's interest to look after commuters than the person who books an on-line ticket 5 times a year.

I used to often wonder why there were no bookings (or first-class for that matter) on the Sligo line before they came in a couple of years ago, but it actually makes perfect sense not to have them at all. In essence, the extra revenue gained from taking a booking is far offset by the costs involved in providing the facility. As Irish Rail's business model on the Sligo line is very much in the Ryanair model (no proper catering, no first class, no train hosts, etc.) it stands perfectly to reason that a booking service is entirely surplus to requirements.

dowlingm · 17-02-2015, 20:18

James - mixing commuting and long distance trains is often tricky. VIA Rail used to offer turn up and go to those with commuter passes, and there was some disquiet when they decided commuters must have allocated seats. I think many/most commuters wouldn't find an electronic option insuperable though.

http://www.viarail.ca/en/fares-and-p...ommuter-passes

Quote:

Commuter ePass holders enjoy reserved seating (advance reservations are strongly recommended).

Basically IE view reservations as an upsell/revenue generator rather than an integral part of the traveling experience as VIA seems to. They should be instructed by NTA to build the reservation charge into the ticket fee when their agreement is renewed, with pass holders receiving a seat allocation (where available) rather than just a ticket to travel as at present. This will doubtless disappoint those within IE who favour a Ryanair approach of splitting travel into component parts and charging for all parts the NTA doesn't have regulatory authority to restrain.

James Howard · 18-02-2015, 09:51

I think we can all agree that the present system is a complete mess - at least in how it is implemented on the Sligo line. On Cork trains with paper back-ups and train hosts policing the system it probably works a lot better.

I wouldn't object terribly to an all-reservation system, if it was included in the ticket price but it is fairly complicated and is the sort of thing Irish Rail would make a complete mess of it. And it would still need a degree of policing during boarding which is something that all the Irish Rail staff in Connolly seem to be too busy to be able to do.

By the way, seat reservations aren't currently an up-sell for on-line sales. Every on-line ticket gets a seat reservation. Seat reservations are available for a fee for social welfare pass-holders or season ticket holders. This is the main reason why relatively few people use seat reservations on Sligo. It is rarely the case that an on-line ticket from Longford or points closer to Dublin is significantly cheaper than a walk-up and traffic beyond Longford is about 10% of the business on the line.

James Howard · 20-02-2015, 18:19

On the 1705 tonight, the seats opposite me are booked by a D**k Fitzwell and a Master Ba**r. The two student idiots who booked the tickets are nowhere to be seen and two middle aged ladies are sitting the seats.

This is how well the system is working at the moment.

11-02-2015, 19:24	#13
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	On the 19.20 ex Cork and reservation system broken however stickers have being placed on reserved seats! James 22 shutdowns before departure in some cases for drivers to start all engines shouldnt affect the system. Happened earlier in Heuston and reservations didn't disappear. Either its operated by the batteries or backed up by them. I do think its driver dependent as some seem to conpletly shut down and others seem to keep lighting, air con, reservation system working. Last edited by Jamie2k9 : 11-02-2015 at 19:31.

18-02-2015, 09:51	#18
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I think we can all agree that the present system is a complete mess - at least in how it is implemented on the Sligo line. On Cork trains with paper back-ups and train hosts policing the system it probably works a lot better. I wouldn't object terribly to an all-reservation system, if it was included in the ticket price but it is fairly complicated and is the sort of thing Irish Rail would make a complete mess of it. And it would still need a degree of policing during boarding which is something that all the Irish Rail staff in Connolly seem to be too busy to be able to do. By the way, seat reservations aren't currently an up-sell for on-line sales. Every on-line ticket gets a seat reservation. Seat reservations are available for a fee for social welfare pass-holders or season ticket holders. This is the main reason why relatively few people use seat reservations on Sligo. It is rarely the case that an on-line ticket from Longford or points closer to Dublin is significantly cheaper than a walk-up and traffic beyond Longford is about 10% of the business on the line. Last edited by James Howard : 18-02-2015 at 09:58.

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07-02-2015, 10:08	#2
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I was on that train but not on the same carriage, and checked out Irish Rail's twitter feed to see what info was up there. The girl involved appears to have tweeted Irish Rail to complain about the guy involved drinking heavily as part of a group. She has protected her twitter feed now, but hadn't yesterday and most of her previous tweets seemed to have been abusing Irish Rail about various failings. The whole thing seems quite odd and the train wasn't even seriously delayed. It made up whatever time it lost by Edgeworthstown. It only ended up in a paper because a local journo was in the same carriage. Irish Rail really need to think about giving up seat reservations on the Sligo line. This was the Friday 1705 - the busiest train of the week and there was no ticket collector on the train. Even if there was, it is 50 - 50 if he is in the right half of the train, so there basically nobody there to enforce bookings. At the very least they should go back to charging an extra couple of quid for seat reservations as a lot of people don't even sit in their reserved seats so the whole situation is a mess. And since the indicators don't work about 10 - 20% of the time or they switch them on five minutes before departure, it is just a recipe for a row. I personally don't sit in reserved seats but if I find myself in one by accident because the indicator wasn't working or it lit up after I sat down, I just stick to the 20 minutes before departure rule.

07-02-2015, 10:22	#3
berneyarms Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 602	That 20 minute rule really ought to be consigned to history. It's utterly out of date in this day and age. I'm not aware of any other rail operator that has such a policy.

07-02-2015, 12:55	#4
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	If IE had a system that functions which we still seem waiting 8 years and counting for problems would be a lot less. I wouldn't get out of a reserved seat either but I would tell the passenger apply for a refund. IE lose lots of money but they don't seem bothered, guess when you have the taxpayers money tap its ok.

07-02-2015, 17:28	#5
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	The only part of Irish Rail's booking policy for the Sligo line that makes any sense is the 20 minute rule. The system simply does not work and leads to arguments and disgruntled customers as it currently stands as Irish Rail are failing to meet the expectations of those who have booked and those who haven't. The specific failures are 1. The system fails altogether about 10% of the time. About another 10 to 20% of journeys I take, it is late switched on, or has the wrong names in it. 2. They have nobody to enforce it and settle disputes 3. Bookings are given for free with on-line ticket sales. As a result a significant proportion of people booking tickets do not take their seats. It is hard to know precisely how many people are not taking up their bookings but on the 1905, it would no be far off half of the booked seats unoccupied leaving Maynooth. I think it is fairly safe to say that relatively few people book tickets from Connolly to Maynooth. It would really help matters by going back to the old system where a seat reservation cost a few euro on top of the fare. As a commuter, I never have a booking but I generally make sure I am 20 minutes early for the train so that I can get a seat. As such, it is perfectly reasonable that if I sit in a seat with no reservation indicated than I basically have as much right to that seat as anybody else especially when the conditions of carriage state this. That being said, I will move if the person with the booking is being a right snot about it and there is another seat available but the majority of people are reasonable and take the other seat once it is pointed out. One thing Irish Rail could do that would help enormously would be to designate one carriage for bookings (this would specifically NOT be the accessible one) as the toilet facilities and wheelchair spaces tend to be needed by either elderly people travelling on passes with no bookings or by wheelchair users who will have booked through special channels. This would at least help the commuters as they would know not to use that carriage.

07-02-2015, 17:44	#6
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	One other thing - if I had a bit of a brass neck, I could probably get myself a free trip as far as Mullingar on the 1705 by booking a seat, sitting in it and then claiming that it was occupied. Since Irish Rail have no ticket checker on the train, how are they going to know if there were people standing as far as Mullingar which is usually the case on that train.

07-02-2015, 17:53	#7
berneyarms Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2013 Posts: 602	I will disagree with you about the so called 20 minute rule. If someone has a seat reservation they should not have to be at the departure station 20 minutes before the train is due to depart. It is just plain daft in this day and age. Why should anyone with a reserved seat not have the right to take their seat up until departure, as is the case across the water and indeed on the continent? Adding that extra time means trains are even competitive with other modes. However, one thing I really think IE have to address is having frontline staff on board every Intercity train - it's ok for commuter/DART to be driver only, but not in my opinion for Intercity trains.

08-02-2015, 17:00	#9
Inniskeen Really Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2010 Posts: 951	To my mind having to turn up 20 minutes early to claim your seat is ridiculous. Generally speaking if you turn up 20 minutes early there is bags of room but according to the rules if I turn up 19 minutes early I can tell the person who turns up 15 minutes early to claim their seat to get lost. Will Irish Rail back me up ? I doubt it ! The 20 minutes rule only adds to the confusion and aggro around seat reservations to the extent that I never bother reserving a seat and will happily stand on the odd occasion when I can't find either an used reserved seat or an unreserved seat. If somebody claims their reserved seat I will vacate it without question. If somebody claims an unmarked reserved seat I will probably vacate that also unless the approach is unduly aggressive. I typically board a service a few minutes before departure so a reservation would be waste of money (I have an annual ticket).

08-02-2015, 19:47	#10
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I actually agree that the 20 minute rule is a stupid idea in an ideal world. But given the mess that seat reservations are on the Sligo line, it provides a reasonable way to settle most arguments unless one of the parties is a nutter. Personally, I don't sit in reserved seats even when it is less than 20 minutes to go but I am reluctant to move if there is a fault with the system. The way seat reservations work in practice on the Sligo line is different to other lines where they have been available for a long time and people are used to them. This has been made worse since they stopped charging extra for seat reservations as now a substantial minority doesn't even take up their reserved seats. Irish Rail really need to sort out the issues with the electronic reservations and allocate a couple of staff members to manage the boarding process as it is currently a mess. Going to paper reservation slips is unnecessary and labour-intensive - they just need to have staff available (and this needs to be three or four during a settling in period). They could fund this by having one of the staff members be a ticket-checker as it is simply idiotic to have the peak student train operate without a ticket-checker. If this continues, you'll find about 20% of the passengers on this train travelling on Sydney Parade to Booterstown tickets. The other option would be to simply abandon seat reservations on the Sligo line. It managed perfectly fine this way for at least 20 years so I'm not sure why it is suddenly necessary now. It can't go on the way it is currently - sooner or later sooner is going to get injured or worse due to an argument caused by this.

09-02-2015, 08:10	#12
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I think that getting rid of seat reservations on the Sligo line would have zero effect on traffic inside our outside the commuter belt. This impression is based on the fact that a large number of booked seats go occupied or are occupied by somebody obviously not matching the booking (different gender). There is no tradition of booking on the Sligo line so people are not able to cope with it. Since there is an hourly down service for most of the afternoon, I suspect the majority of people prefer the flexibility of an open return over the advantages of an booked seat. There tends to be a lot more bookings on the evening down trains. Nevertheless, I don't personally have a problem with booking so long as the system actually works. The present system does not work and I think the reason is a combination of Irish Rail being too short-staffed to be able to switch it on in a timely manner. The automatic shutdown of the 22Ks probably doesn't help matters either. The presence or absence of paper booking slips is a red herring and would not make the blindest bit of difference. A half-assed booking system with no enforcement is ultimately far worse for customers than no system at all. This enforcement needs to cut both ways and involve fines. If you have a booking, you should be fined for not taking the seat and if you don't have a booking you should be fine for taking the seat. The seat displays should work all of the time and Irish Rail should be forced to refund the price of a ticket for anyone whose booking doesn't appear. If this was all in place, they should then get rid of the 20 minute rule which makes bookings almost entirely pointless on the Sligo line as there is no train where you won't get a seat if you turn up 20 minutes before departure.

12-02-2015, 08:14	#14
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I've definitely seen bookings disappear on a restart more than one, but perhaps it was co-incidence. What goes on and off does not seem to be consistent - perhaps it could also be related to software versions. I have never seen paper reservation slips on the Sligo line - I think things are just done differently out of Connolly. Neither the passengers nor Irish Rail appear to take reservations terribly seriously and this is probably the root cause of these disagreements. It really wouldn't be terribly difficult for Irish Rail to put a couple of people on the train while it is boarding to help matters. There always seems to be three or four Irish Rail staff members floating about in Connolly in addition to those needed for the booking office, info desk and the ticket gates.

17-02-2015, 17:30	#15
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	To my mind, it's going to be hard to make this work without one/other (or both) of the following: 1. All seats are assigned in all carriages with any reserved seating. That's how it works on VIA Rail and on airlines. No reservation = no seat in that carriage unless on board staff can both check and update the manifest from an electronic device and issue a receipt to the passenger. This may bother the people with open returns but there should be pressure on IE to enforce some requirements on them beyond "rock up and find a seat". 2. Where IE seek to charge for a seat reservation, they must employ resources (staff) to ensure the system works and that reservations are honoured. If initial improvement efforts fail to bring a result within reasonable expectations based on comparable rail operations elsewhere, the NTA should direct them to cease offering reservations on all unstaffed trains.

17-02-2015, 18:01	#16
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	I agree 100% that option 2 is definitely very sensible but there are serious issues with mandatory bookings. If they could be done at zero cost for pass-holders, they might be a runner but any mandatory booking system puts the interests of commuters against those of occasional travellers. Any business that treats its best customers worse than the occasional user is doomed to failure. Like most long distance commuters, I would physically be unable to continue commuting if I had to stand for 90 minutes each way every day. It would also tilt the balance of convenience in my journey towards using the car. The marginal cost of having to pay 6 or 10 euro a day for reservations both ways would also finish off my household budget. So effectively, Irish Rail would lose 4 grand a year from my commuter pass. For social welfare passes, it would be politically impossible to charge the holder a tenner return for a seat. On the Sligo line, long-distance commuters probably account for at least a quarter of revenue so our interests cannot be ignored in this matter. Similarly a large chunk of revenue is coming from the social welfare passes. At the moment bookings would account for about 5% of the business on the Sligo line so it would be utterly dumb for Irish Rail to do something that looks after seat bookers at the expense of the pass-holders would account for more than 50% of revenue. Another 45% of revenue comes from the rock-up and go day return buyers and/or students, leaving the balance of 5% coming from on-line bookings. Each line is different - the main point for the Sligo line is that walk-ups are generally the same price as bookings so very few people book as the booking ties you to particular trains. In addition, most stations on the line have had on-line booking facilities for less than a year so people are not used to it. Another oddity of the Sligo line is that commuter passes are proportionally more valuable to Irish Rail than occasional travellers than on the Heuston services. It currently takes 15 day returns before you've spent more than a cash monthly pass. All of this means that for the Sligo line only, it is more in Irish Rail's interest to look after commuters than the person who books an on-line ticket 5 times a year. I used to often wonder why there were no bookings (or first-class for that matter) on the Sligo line before they came in a couple of years ago, but it actually makes perfect sense not to have them at all. In essence, the extra revenue gained from taking a booking is far offset by the costs involved in providing the facility. As Irish Rail's business model on the Sligo line is very much in the Ryanair model (no proper catering, no first class, no train hosts, etc.) it stands perfectly to reason that a booking service is entirely surplus to requirements.

20-02-2015, 18:19	#19
James Howard Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Sligo Line Posts: 1,115	On the 1705 tonight, the seats opposite me are booked by a Dk Fitzwell and a Master Bar. The two student idiots who booked the tickets are nowhere to be seen and two middle aged ladies are sitting the seats. This is how well the system is working at the moment.