[article] TVM and Child Tickets

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news...-30100495.html

Irish Rail is to introduce a new system in which children's tickets can only be bought from vending machines if an adult ticket is also purchased.

The transport company has not sold child tickets from machines at 164 stations for over two years because adults were using them to evade fares.

Commuters were greatly reducing their travel costs by purchasing a child's ticket, instead of paying the adult fare.

Irish Rail said it had no choice but to disable the 'child' option on machines in stations across Dublin's DART and commuter network.

The company decided to only sell children's tickets at service counters because of what a spokeswoman described as "a notable level of misuse".

She said the problem was centred on the greater Dublin area and the revenue lost could not be quantified.

Irish Rail said it was now setting up a new system whereby a child ticket can be purchased from a vending machine – but only when bought alongside an adult one.

"In the DART/Commuter area there was a notable level of misuse of child tickets by adults," the spokeswoman said.

"Despite our revenue protection officers focusing on penalising such fare evasion, the problem continued, and we decided, in the DART/Commuter area only, to withdraw child tickets for sale from ticket vending machines.

"We have recently increased the level of revenue protection officers operating on our network so we are now confident that misuse will not occur due to increased ticket checks."

Labour TD Sean Kenny, who raised the issue with Irish Rail, said passengers were concerned they could be held liable and fined if unable to purchase a ticket from machines for their children.

An on-the-spot fine of €100, plus the fare, can be imposed. A fine of up to €1,000 can be imposed by the district court if the penalty is unpaid.

Mr Kenny said he was "happy" that Irish Rail was addressing the problem.

A short-hop journey is €2.15 for an adult, compared with €1.15 for a child.

[James Howard]

That is good news.

I had an issue with this a while ago where I was attempting to a buy family day ticket for the DART on a Sunday morning in Landsdowne road. We simply couldn't get on a train without jumping the barriers so we just ended up getting the car out the of hotel car-park and going home early instead of spending the day seeing Dublin by rail. Result, loss of revenue for Irish Rail and the restaurant in Howth that we didn't bother eating at and the shops we didn't bother visiting.

[Mark Gleeson]

Family tickets have been available on all routes from the machines for quite a while.

Our discussions with Irish Rail indicated that child tickets were to be made available without restriction, which is not what is happening. The TVM's are being basically set to the way they were originally, must buy at least 1 adult ticket as part of the transaction

[James Howard]

This was a while ago - probably a couple of years.

How difficult would it be to make the exit barriers make a different noise if a child ticket was used?

[Mark Gleeson]

The barriers visually indicate if a child ticket/smartcard is in use, watch for a yellow bar inside the green arrow on top of the turnstile. London Underground use the same trick

[berneyarms]

So what, officially, is an unaccompanied child, who does not have a LEAP card, supposed to do if the station booking office is closed?

[Mark Gleeson]

They travel for free

[James Howard]

I should imagine that at the weekend, a huge proportion of people do so anyway if travelling between unmanned stations. Very little risk of getting caught. Particularly down the country where a return 25 miles journey can cost 20 euro and the fine is only a hundred.

The chance of being caught is very low - if there is a ticket checker, get in the right half of the train and he can't get to you. Even if you do get rumbled, you'll probably get away with it if you present a torn twenty euro note and don't behave like a complete toerag.

I am not for one moment suggesting that anybody do this. I personally have a pass and never travel anywhere that the pass doesn't cover. But I am suggesting that Irish Rail would probably more than offset any staffing costs by ensuring that there were enough staff to ensure that everyone has a ticket.

[Jamie2k9]

Our discussions with Irish Rail indicated that child tickets were to be made available without restriction, which is not what is happening. The TVM's are being basically set to the way they were originally, must buy at least 1 adult ticket as part of the transaction

While it would be good to see a full move to both ticket types but would IE just end up shooting themselves in the foot by doing it again. Yes there is extra staff doing checks however I don't think it's enough.

Teens should have a leap card and if they don't they are a little foolish or their parents have money to burn!

Younger children shouldn't be traveling alone anyway.

Should more of a push be made with the leap card?

How to the UK handle such problems? Now they have the resources with RPU staff and transport police at the click of a finger something which isn't really sustainable here at all stations.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

How to the UK handle such problems?

While many main stations don't have ticket barriers, they do have staff present. An awful lot of trains have an on-board conductor.

[Mark Gleeson]

There are no child cash fares in London, must have an oyster card.

[James Howard]

And it's a bit of a pain for tourists visiting the city on a once-off. That being said, cash fares in London are so high that an Oyster card is worth buying even if you're only there for a weekend. It is a bit of a tax on tourists though.

If you live in Ireland, you may as well get a leap card even if you only visit Dublin a couple of times a year. I stupidly got a personalised one which is a bit annoying as I presume my next annual rail pass will be leap-enabled.

[Jamie2k9]

While many main stations don't have ticket barriers, they do have staff present. An awful lot of trains have an on-board conductor

We have the ticket barriers here but they spend more time open than closed.

Staffing is an issue but there must be some sort of solution to it.

There are no child cash fares in London, must have an oyster card.

Will probnaly be only a matter of time before it happens here so IE need to push the Leap Card more and request big cash fare increases particuarly for children for the next few years.

Anyone stats on % or Leap and Cash?

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There are no child cash fares in London, must have an oyster card.

Children under 10 are free in London if travelling with a fare paying adult on buses and the underground.

[Mark Gleeson]

If traveling with an adult, Irish Rail's setup allows for a child ticket in that case.

[James Howard]

On a related note, I noticed an odd thing about the TVM in Edgeworthstown after my wife had given up on getting a day return from it this morning. There are three quick options for buying a ticket and they are all open returns to Connolly (Adult, Student and I can't remember the third - possibly child).

To buy a day return to Connolly which is 10 euro cheaper and probably the most commonly bought ticket requires something like 8 taps on the screen and it isn't particularly simple.

Now, I'm sure all of the genius TVM operators with years of experience using these machines will say that it is the customer's fault here in being stupid but I think this is a bit off. I can't but help think that the options have been deliberately set up so as to upsell the odd unnecessary open return ticket.

When my wife went in to buy a ticket in the office after she had given up, the guy there said he gets that all the time where people can't figure out how to buy a day return. He said that you should use use the ticket office when it's open but that is probably somewhat motivated by wanting to keep his job.

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There are no child cash fares in London, must have an oyster card.

Well under-11s are free and 11-15 can get one-day paper Travelcards.