[article] Cicrle line

[PaulM]

There is an article in the business section of the independant about Cormac Rabbitte's new idea. He proposes a "circle line". From what I read it does everything the interconnector does but he will get the credit for it. I don't have a Unison account so can't post it.

[Dave]

From Unison

Pulling a transport solution Rabbitt out of a hat

Engineer proposes a web of train lines and links in joined-up Dublin region system

THE debate over Dublin's transport problems has been long and often as complicated as some of the proposed solutions.

But through it all at least one contributor has managed to make sense, even if what he has to say has yet to be taken on board by those who wield power.

Engineer and transport expert Cormac Rabbitt was an early critic of the cumbersome contracting procedure chosen to deliver the Luas project and Dublin Port tunnel project.

As far back as 1996, he had argued that there were too many parties involved for streamlined delivery, within time and budget for such major construction works.

He has now come up with a solution to Dublin's transport problems.

He is suggesting a Metro system for Dublin, a project which he believes can be delivered within five years and for the relatively modest sum of €2.6bn, a saving of €31.4bn on the proposed spend.

Rabbitt has named his pet project after William Dargan, the 19th century entrepreneur responsible for building Ireland's rail system.

What impressed Rabbitt was not just the quality of his work, but also the way he treated the people who worked for him. "He was a man who has yet to be equalled," is Rabbitt's assessment.

Late last year, Rabbitt was given the chance to explain his thinking on Dublin's transport network to the Joint Oireachtas Committee on Transport, where he took the opportunity to outline his Dargan Project.

Project

According to Rabbitt, the project addresses the social and economic need to upgrade, without delay, the public infrastructure of the capital.

Apart from that, it will also help alleviate a massive infrastructural deficit through utilisation of a public private partnership fund.

"The deficit in roads and rail is €40bn. It can be done in a profitable manner, consistent with the market."

The Dargan project is similar to that of Madrid and beautiful in its simplicity, involving as it does an upgrade of all the existing lines, extending a few new lines and linking everything together.

Dublin is a bay city. It has six rail lines, nine major radial roads and a 6.3 km loop line along the north side from Heuston, around through Cabra to Spencer Dock.

The project proposes the linking of this loop line with a 5.9km line on the south side.

What will be created is a circle line that is just 12 kms long, with 80pc of this new line crossing under State-controlled land.

This Circle Line forms the heart of the Dargan project, and runs from Heuston Station, under Dr Steven's Hospital, St James's Hospital, Cork Street to the Coombe bypass, on to Cuffe Street extension, through St Stephen's Green, across the Huguenot Cemetery, under Merrion Square, to Pearse Station and over to Spencer Dock.

According to Rabbitt it will then be possible to link Dublin's railway in a web pattern which builds on all the work Dargan did with his railways.

"It is only connecting a line within what Dargan did. It is connecting the six radial rail lines. Consequently, the circle line will help form an integrated public transport network as never before, and will help give Dublin a world class transportation system."

The Circle Line would then be connected to the four mainline rail routes that converge on the capital, while it would also be linked to the two Luas lines.

After this he suggests that it could be expanded into an 18-spoke wheel by the addition of links to the 10 radial quality bus corridors, and two new rail routes which form part of the Dargan Project.

Those new rail lines include a link to Dublin Airport, which he says can be built for about €623m, as well as another new line running underground between Cabra and Templeogue.

This line would serve O'Connell Street, St Stephen's Green, Harold's Cross, Kimmage as well as the huge Crumlin area.

Dargan envisages that another huge suburb of Dublin, Blanchardstown, would get its own Loop Line, spun off the existing Blanchardstown rail line and which would serve the hospital and the nearby national aquatic centre.

The key to the Dargan Project is that this new line, as well as the Circle Line, would have to be built on the same gauge as the mainline rail network - unlike the Government's alternative proposal.

Against this, he says Dublin will not have a world class transportation system by having a few lines crossing to the coast, as envisaged by alternative plans.

The problem with those plans is that there is no integration, allowing people to plan their journeys, as they do in other cities.

Mr Rabbitt also made some estimates of how the new transport network would be used, claiming that it would carry some 36m passengers per year, taking them a total of about 3m kilometres.

Pat Boyle

[Mark]

He is suggesting a Metro system for Dublin, a project which he believes can be delivered within five years and for the relatively modest sum of €2.6bn, a saving of €31.4bn on the proposed spend.

Someones maths are faulty.

I wish Rabbitt would cease. The current interconnector and metro north plans are far more beneficial to the Dublin region than the 'Dargan plan'. Also I dont believe his cost estimates for one moment.

[Donal Quinn]

such nonsense
how exactly does that solve anything?
by the time most commuters have reached this circle line they'll nearly be at their destination

i know we shouldn't even bother commenting on such guff but this kind of crap just muddies the waters and distracts people from the only real workable solution

i've just had a look at it - the map to acompany the article is pathetic. makes the handdrawn map i posted on this board look good. it only shows two stations, connolly and heuston. theres no attempt to explain how it will relieve congestion let alone manage to go from being under heuston and rise quickly enough to pass over the liffey for the PPT

actually there is so much wrong with that map that i'm going to post it here

[Urban_Form]

Interestingly the Irish Time's Frank McDonald seems very keen on this idea also even though it doesn't offer anything new or different to what will be offered on the completion of the interconnector

[Mark]

Terrible reporting from the Indo as usual. Does not solve congestion in any shape or form.

[PaulM]

The only understanding I got is that once this is built, you could build new lines spurring from it (More connolly and Heuston's). I think it saves 34.1Bn if you build it instead of Transport 21. Then once you build all the necessary stuff it costs about the same if not more.

The first thing I thought when I read it was "It is a circular interconnector". An awful piece of journalism. What a shock.

[Mark Gleeson]

Its the usual thing, it appears every 6 months, nothing new in it really since there is already a plan for metro from St Stephens Green via Harolds Cross to Tallaght which takes in a lot of the areas mentioned and the interconnector is already green light

Bad news for Cormac is 36 million pax is fairly crap, metro north will manage that on its own, IE's plans will add another 60-70 million, Luas will top 70 million when all routes finished

The costs don't make any sense at all being so far out on anyone else and there is nothing on the table now which will make it impossible to do this later we don't need another stall we need to get digging

Should of course for the record note the Mr Rabbitte has a commerical interest in this as a member of a consortia which did get on the prequaliification list with the RPA a few years back

[Thomas J Stamp]

Shocking Journalism, erm, they have confused the metro budget with the TOTAL budget for T21 and produced a saving.

Its like saying this new bed is cheaper than a hopsital, let's buy that instead.

Now that isnt the fault of Cormac, its the journalist.

And we wonder why Martin Cullen can get away with claiming things that open this year are "evidence that T21 is already wielding results only one year into the plan" withoiut pulling him up on it, or that "planning is in place for a new station in Dublin " followed by "Docklands station is under construction" which would make you think there are two stations underway in the Docklands, wouldnt it?

As for the Circle line, the reason why it wont work is simple: it's too near the city centre. If it ran down Griffith Avenue, over to Castleknock, doen to Palmerstown, head towards Knocklyon, over to Stillorgan, end up at Kingstown then it will work a lot better.

Which is basicly what the RPA is doing anyway.

[Nigel Fitzgricer]

Personally speaking, I think the Dargan Plan (at it's basic trust) by Cormac Rabbitte is a better rail plan for Dublin than what's outlined in T21 (in terms of heavy rail). The circle line is something I have always beleived had merit. Such a circle line works well in Moscow and Berlin, and Dublin already had the advantage of half of this circle in place in the form of the PPT/Midland route.

The Circle Idea contained within the Dargan Plan will come to nothing or course, but it's a shame really as the more I think about the KRP, the more it looks at best OK-ish to me - a long 2 track storage siding between Hueston and Hazelhatch. Another classic CIE exercise in further entrenching tradition and keeping the obsolete (Heuston) at the centre of development. If the KRP had of fed into Phoenix Park tunnel and onto the Docklands and Pearse via Connolly it would start to look very tasty. Yes I know the Interconnector is coming, but it's many years of packed Red Line trams away. Mr Rabbitte is correct, no joined up thinking.

I will go to my grave pointing out that the Phoenix Park tunnel in any other city in the world be a mass transit route and Glasnevin Junction should be a major station. The Dargan Plan although dead in the water speaks volumes about "missing the obvious" is as much a cornerstone of Irish public transport planning as political interference.

I am pro-T21 more because there is no other choice left. The Dargan Plan concept of a circle route is not the worst idea in the world, but that map posted above is stupid. Obviously the artist knows nothing about trains, but CR general circle idea is sound.