No extension of Ireland's derogation under EU

Jamie2k9 · 13-03-2012, 18:09

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/rail.html

http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/rail-business.html

Mark Gleeson · 13-03-2012, 19:25

Full statement from Department of Transport

Quote:

Govt decision on EU rail derogation

The Government has taken a decision not to seek an extension of Ireland’s derogation under EU legislation dealing with rail market access. The derogation will expire on March 14th 2013.

Following today’s Cabinet meeting, Minister Varadkar announced plans for a consultation process which will consider how best to restructure Irish Rail in light of this decision.

There will be a requirement to establish a separate body to determine charges for access to the railway system, and how capacity should be allocated.

The Minister sees this as an opportunity to encourage greater efficiency and transparency in the rail sector.

The consultation process will be wide-ranging, including Government partners and other stakeholders such as Iarnród Éireann.

“Ireland is the only country in the EU which has been allowed to retain a single operator which regulates, operates and maintains its mainline rail network.

“European law supports greater competition and freer access to the rail network sector across Europe, principally in the area of freight. I would like Ireland to be well prepared to avail of any such opportunities in future.”

Ends

Department of Transport, Tourism and Sport Press Office: 01 6041076 / 01 6041090
Nick Miller 086 6992080

Destructix · 13-03-2012, 22:39

Maybe this is an opportunity to get rid of the unprofitable lines. Like the UK franchise some services like the Limerick junction-Waterford and Ballybrophy-Limerick services. Iarnród Éireann would make more money leasing the lines vs running trains with under 10 passengers.

Mark Gleeson · 14-03-2012, 00:12

Irish Rail are terrified of the derogation withdrawal. Despite their efforts they still haven't figured out the names of companies who have visited Dublin so far to scope things out.

Inniskeen · 14-03-2012, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destructix

Maybe this is an opportunity to get rid of the unprofitable lines. Like the UK franchise some services like the Limerick junction-Waterford and Ballybrophy-Limerick services. Iarnród Éireann would make more money leasing the lines vs running trains with under 10 passengers.

Alternatively it might be an opportunity for the government/taxpayer to procure a more relevant service on these lines for the same or a lesser outlay.

Not sure that the directive relates to domestic passenger services though !

comcor · 14-03-2012, 09:19

Any company coming in is going to be faced with an initial start up problem of the gauge. It's not like they can shift stock from operations elsewhere in Europe. And if they invest in stock, they need to make sure that they are going to win a contract to operate a line.

Of course, the 2700s that are going out of service could present a quick and easy entry opportunity, but I assume they won't be available to any entrants.

There is possibly a business opportunity in all this for a stock leasing company.

Thomas J Stamp · 14-03-2012, 10:37

odd, Leo Varadkar was on morning ireland today expressly ruling out any compitition in relation to passenger services, says this will only apply to freight.

this is not in the spirit of the department press release, i assume this is a sop to the unions.

Colm Moore · 14-03-2012, 11:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Not sure that the directive relates to domestic passenger services though !

Irish Rail's contract with the NTA runs to about 2019, but can be changed at will by the NTA. It would be difficult for any passenger operator to run without a subvention.

Thomas J Stamp · 14-03-2012, 12:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colm Moore

Irish Rail's contract with the NTA runs to about 2019, but can be changed at will by the NTA. It would be difficult for any passenger operator to run without a subvention.

the minister this morning said there will be no subvention to any private operator. that means no private operators.

comcor · 14-03-2012, 13:59

Unless a private operator was willing to make losses to get their foot in the door.

Throw a skeleton service on Rosslare-Waterford (the easiest choice because you can sell restarting the service as a good news story) and how much could you actually lose when someone else has to take care of the infrastructure? Then press for changes in the subvention at a later date.

And there's always the possibility of a community co-operative looking at some of the lightly used lines.

dowlingm · 14-03-2012, 16:04

The need to subvent and level thereof would be influenced by the level of track access charges and how much to put cargo into places it currently isn't.

If IE Infrastructure is penniless and needing to impose punitive access charges that would be one thing. If IE Infrastructure was created free of stuff like pension obligations to retired workers (i.e. CIE turned into a sort of "bad bank") and worthless assets like Kingscourt branch or Claremorris-Collooney then maybe it could be run on a fairly business like basis where IEI could fund additional freight infrastructure without demanding unrealistically early contributions from the shipper/carrier (as in Foynes for example).

Perhaps innovative solutions could be found similar to how Dublin Port self-funded its new spur track by handing the Foynes alignment over the SFPC and make them responsible for reinstatement but then having full control over the asset should any other use be proposed.

Colm Moore · 14-03-2012, 18:59

Irish Rail have already set track access charges.

Strictly speaking they should be set somewhere between the marginal cost of running the extra service (taking into account track wear) and the rate Irish Rail charges itself (which is much lower than the full economic cost).

Thomas Ralph · 15-03-2012, 20:53

I wonder would Abellio or Arriva be interested. They've both been trying to get any franchise they can lay their hands on over here.

ThomasJ · 16-03-2012, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

I wonder would Abellio or Arriva be interested. They've both been trying to get any franchise they can lay their hands on over here.

Didnt db buy arriva?

Thomas Ralph · 17-03-2012, 09:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by ThomasJ

Didnt db buy arriva?

Think so. Abellio is Nederlands Spoorwegen.

13-03-2012, 18:09	#1
Jamie2k9 Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Jun 2010 Posts: 2,146	No extension of Ireland's derogation under EU http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/rail.html http://www.rte.ie/news/2012/0313/rail-business.html

14-03-2012, 00:12	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Irish Rail are terrified of the derogation withdrawal. Despite their efforts they still haven't figured out the names of companies who have visited Dublin so far to scope things out. __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

14-03-2012, 10:37	#7
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	odd, Leo Varadkar was on morning ireland today expressly ruling out any compitition in relation to passenger services, says this will only apply to freight. this is not in the spirit of the department press release, i assume this is a sop to the unions. __________________ We are the passengers

14-03-2012, 18:59	#12
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	Irish Rail have already set track access charges. Strictly speaking they should be set somewhere between the marginal cost of running the extra service (taking into account track wear) and the rate Irish Rail charges itself (which is much lower than the full economic cost). __________________

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13-03-2012, 22:39	#3
Destructix Really Regular Poster Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: North Tipperary Posts: 258	Maybe this is an opportunity to get rid of the unprofitable lines. Like the UK franchise some services like the Limerick junction-Waterford and Ballybrophy-Limerick services. Iarnród Éireann would make more money leasing the lines vs running trains with under 10 passengers.

14-03-2012, 09:19	#6
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	Any company coming in is going to be faced with an initial start up problem of the gauge. It's not like they can shift stock from operations elsewhere in Europe. And if they invest in stock, they need to make sure that they are going to win a contract to operate a line. Of course, the 2700s that are going out of service could present a quick and easy entry opportunity, but I assume they won't be available to any entrants. There is possibly a business opportunity in all this for a stock leasing company.

14-03-2012, 13:59	#10
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	Unless a private operator was willing to make losses to get their foot in the door. Throw a skeleton service on Rosslare-Waterford (the easiest choice because you can sell restarting the service as a good news story) and how much could you actually lose when someone else has to take care of the infrastructure? Then press for changes in the subvention at a later date. And there's always the possibility of a community co-operative looking at some of the lightly used lines.

14-03-2012, 16:04	#11
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	The need to subvent and level thereof would be influenced by the level of track access charges and how much to put cargo into places it currently isn't. If IE Infrastructure is penniless and needing to impose punitive access charges that would be one thing. If IE Infrastructure was created free of stuff like pension obligations to retired workers (i.e. CIE turned into a sort of "bad bank") and worthless assets like Kingscourt branch or Claremorris-Collooney then maybe it could be run on a fairly business like basis where IEI could fund additional freight infrastructure without demanding unrealistically early contributions from the shipper/carrier (as in Foynes for example). Perhaps innovative solutions could be found similar to how Dublin Port self-funded its new spur track by handing the Foynes alignment over the SFPC and make them responsible for reinstatement but then having full control over the asset should any other use be proposed.

15-03-2012, 20:53	#13
Thomas Ralph IT Officer Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Greenwich, London Posts: 1,860	I wonder would Abellio or Arriva be interested. They've both been trying to get any franchise they can lay their hands on over here.