Slane bypass binned by ABP - opportunity?

dowlingm · 07-03-2012, 18:08

Back in 2005 RUI proposed reopening the Navan-Drogheda line to passenger. The IE2030 plan didn't recommend it but that was on the basis that Navan-Dunboyne would proceed. While it wouldn't solve the HGV issue I can't help thinking a quick and dirty refresh of the Navan line might help ease traffic in the Slane area as well keep up passenger numbers on the Northern Line now that demand is falling on the existing route and DASH2 waddling towards conclusion.

comcor · 07-03-2012, 19:00

Where would you get the slots at Connolly?

Or are you suggesting a Slane-Drogheda shuttle for connections?

dowlingm · 07-03-2012, 19:56

More like Navan-Duleek with no stop at Drogheda (given that there is no branch platform) chasing another train out of there and speeding up that other service by picking up some of that train's trade, based on an analysis of which stops tend not to set down passengers ex Drogheda. Challenging at the moment but if DASH2 finishes then in theory there should be at least a little wiggle room.

It just seems to me that Dunboyne-Navan is now way off and the old RUI plan of getting something for relatively small spend should be dusted off.

Traincustomer · 07-03-2012, 20:26

There may indeed be merit in looking again at the Boyne Valley line. This is no reflection whatsoever on the work of the M3 Parkway - Navan line project team but just a reflection of the serious economic reality.

Agreed that say two extra slots would be challenging but not totally impossible especially after the signalling upgrades.

The Navan line was cleared for MKIIIs (one went there too) and had numerous football specials and railtours in the 80s and 90s. Given heavy freight trains traverse it day in day out, have railway regulations changed so profoundly in the intervening years that millions would really be required to bring it up to passenger standards?

Going for an initial minimum outlay spend raises points such as:

* Beauparc LC is a stumbling block. On initial analysis though this could perhaps be overcome by having a Navan-based signaller drive there morning and evening.

* Reinstating Duleek could be a medium-term issue.

* Two Navan - Dublin morning trains and two Dublin-Navan evening trains Mondays to Fridays inclusive.

* One train could perhaps be stabled overnight on the loop at Navan to avoid shuttling to/fro to Drogheda.

* Superficial work may be required on the platform at Navan.

karlr42 · 07-03-2012, 21:34

Biggest issue is probably the speed. The line travels due east from Navan, so it's a very poor alignment to get to Dublin, so that will add time. The line speed would probably be quite low given its freight-only status. After Drogheda you're crawling along on the congested mainline. I think it would be extremely difficult to offer an attractive timetabled speed for the journey.

dowlingm · 07-03-2012, 21:56

Hmm... maybe a couple of storage tracks with hotel power could be built in Navan and charged to the Clonsilla line budget. After all, it's gonna happen someday right?

Just a little "BX-D" project later on to join it up...

Have just looked at the LC location - hard to grade sep without some house expropriations, no nearby alternate routes. Too remote from the N2 to call it a "Parkway". Tricky all right. Hard to justify automation when the Tara traffic is on deathwatch (strategically speaking) although it would be nice to eliminate the need for a 2200hp loco and hundreds of tonnes of freight to dead stop as that train's crew self-opens the gates at present. Even if Indaver started taking rubbish from Dublin that would do nothing for Beauparc's economics as the incinerator is the other side of it near Platin cement works.

A "N2 Parkway" halt at Cullen would cater for Slane - not optimally obviously but a quick and dirty plan rules out a diversion.

karlr42 - true, but the service could be marketed to people working on the northside/Dublin Airport/Swords/Malahide rather than in the CBD proper. People working in central Dublin have the option of existing bus services anyway. Missing Drogheda would be unfortunate since it cuts out local and Enterprise trade but as I recall a platform would have to be remote (on the south edge of the carpark) and cantilevered over the N1 bridge to be the requisite length. One would hope that missing out Drogheda and picking up in Balbriggan, Swords etc would make the economics work. That is, after all, how the Nenagh branch service is being sold...

Traincustomer · 08-03-2012, 00:19

It's a pity that Beauparc wasn't automated back in 1985 at the same time that Moatehill in Navan was. The latter crossing is on the disconnected Kingscourt branch on the former N3 main Kells/Cavan road (now the R147) and was likely automated due to road traffic volumes. If Navan North ever materialises Moatehill LC will need to be reactivated.

Beauparc would easily have paid for itself in the 27 years up until the present by the cumulative savings from faster running and reduced staff hours that it would have allowed.

The Navan line is apparently now limited to 25m.p.h.. Not many years ago that was 40m.p.h.. There is some CWR on the line too.

Perhaps the reduced speed is to negate the need for too much track maintenance (i.e. to keep costs down) and as such it may not reflect the optimum speed that could be attained on the line.

With freights having a slower speed it may well be the case that right now the Navan line could sustain 40m.p.h. railcar running.

However to achieve anything close to a feasible end to end running time would require sustained 60mph (if not 70/75mph) running along the branch together with a semi-fast run south of Drogheda.

dowlingm · 08-03-2012, 03:35

Does IE have differential speeds for freight and passenger in some parts of the network? It's common here in Canuckistan. Having say 60mph for passenger/40mph for freight might keep the impact on the track more manageable. Mind you "freight" is a bit different too with the mile long consists and double stack boxes etc. Going to higher grade track might allow 201s to do Taras if convenient at a given time rather than finding 071s or 111s to do it. I would like to see a policy where by say 2020 all passenger rail in the country had a line speed of 60mph or better (subject to reasonable PSRs for terrain etc) and if that couldn't be achieved in a given section then close the line to double down on lines that could be improved.

Colm Moore · 08-03-2012, 08:21

This is straying away from passenger issues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dowlingm

Does IE have differential speeds for freight and passenger in some parts of the network?

Not that I know, although 201s do have additional speed restrictions compared to the rest of the fleet

dowlingm · 08-03-2012, 15:12

It was really more a question of whether the track speed could be lifted for passenger service only or if that would cause regulatory problems. A project like this could be killed very easily if there was an insistence that all trains could reach the speed intended for passenger if that means significant additional capital cost.

07-03-2012, 18:08	#1
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Slane bypass binned by ABP - opportunity? Back in 2005 RUI proposed reopening the Navan-Drogheda line to passenger. The IE2030 plan didn't recommend it but that was on the basis that Navan-Dunboyne would proceed. While it wouldn't solve the HGV issue I can't help thinking a quick and dirty refresh of the Navan line might help ease traffic in the Slane area as well keep up passenger numbers on the Northern Line now that demand is falling on the existing route and DASH2 waddling towards conclusion.

07-03-2012, 20:26	#4
Traincustomer Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ar an traein Posts: 602	There may indeed be merit in looking again at the Boyne Valley line. This is no reflection whatsoever on the work of the M3 Parkway - Navan line project team but just a reflection of the serious economic reality. Agreed that say two extra slots would be challenging but not totally impossible especially after the signalling upgrades. The Navan line was cleared for MKIIIs (one went there too) and had numerous football specials and railtours in the 80s and 90s. Given heavy freight trains traverse it day in day out, have railway regulations changed so profoundly in the intervening years that millions would really be required to bring it up to passenger standards? Going for an initial minimum outlay spend raises points such as: * Beauparc LC is a stumbling block. On initial analysis though this could perhaps be overcome by having a Navan-based signaller drive there morning and evening. * Reinstating Duleek could be a medium-term issue. * Two Navan - Dublin morning trains and two Dublin-Navan evening trains Mondays to Fridays inclusive. * One train could perhaps be stabled overnight on the loop at Navan to avoid shuttling to/fro to Drogheda. * Superficial work may be required on the platform at Navan. Last edited by Traincustomer : 07-03-2012 at 20:31. Reason: clarity of language in a point

07-03-2012, 21:56	#6
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Hmm... maybe a couple of storage tracks with hotel power could be built in Navan and charged to the Clonsilla line budget. After all, it's gonna happen someday right? Just a little "BX-D" project later on to join it up... Have just looked at the LC location - hard to grade sep without some house expropriations, no nearby alternate routes. Too remote from the N2 to call it a "Parkway". Tricky all right. Hard to justify automation when the Tara traffic is on deathwatch (strategically speaking) although it would be nice to eliminate the need for a 2200hp loco and hundreds of tonnes of freight to dead stop as that train's crew self-opens the gates at present. Even if Indaver started taking rubbish from Dublin that would do nothing for Beauparc's economics as the incinerator is the other side of it near Platin cement works. A "N2 Parkway" halt at Cullen would cater for Slane - not optimally obviously but a quick and dirty plan rules out a diversion. karlr42 - true, but the service could be marketed to people working on the northside/Dublin Airport/Swords/Malahide rather than in the CBD proper. People working in central Dublin have the option of existing bus services anyway. Missing Drogheda would be unfortunate since it cuts out local and Enterprise trade but as I recall a platform would have to be remote (on the south edge of the carpark) and cantilevered over the N1 bridge to be the requisite length. One would hope that missing out Drogheda and picking up in Balbriggan, Swords etc would make the economics work. That is, after all, how the Nenagh branch service is being sold... Last edited by dowlingm : 07-03-2012 at 22:13. Reason: corrected n2 to n1 for drogheda

08-03-2012, 00:19	#7
Traincustomer Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: ar an traein Posts: 602	It's a pity that Beauparc wasn't automated back in 1985 at the same time that Moatehill in Navan was. The latter crossing is on the disconnected Kingscourt branch on the former N3 main Kells/Cavan road (now the R147) and was likely automated due to road traffic volumes. If Navan North ever materialises Moatehill LC will need to be reactivated. Beauparc would easily have paid for itself in the 27 years up until the present by the cumulative savings from faster running and reduced staff hours that it would have allowed. The Navan line is apparently now limited to 25m.p.h.. Not many years ago that was 40m.p.h.. There is some CWR on the line too. Perhaps the reduced speed is to negate the need for too much track maintenance (i.e. to keep costs down) and as such it may not reflect the optimum speed that could be attained on the line. With freights having a slower speed it may well be the case that right now the Navan line could sustain 40m.p.h. railcar running. However to achieve anything close to a feasible end to end running time would require sustained 60mph (if not 70/75mph) running along the branch together with a semi-fast run south of Drogheda. Last edited by Traincustomer : 08-03-2012 at 00:21. Reason: addition

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-03-2012, 19:00	#2
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	Where would you get the slots at Connolly? Or are you suggesting a Slane-Drogheda shuttle for connections?

07-03-2012, 19:56	#3
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	More like Navan-Duleek with no stop at Drogheda (given that there is no branch platform) chasing another train out of there and speeding up that other service by picking up some of that train's trade, based on an analysis of which stops tend not to set down passengers ex Drogheda. Challenging at the moment but if DASH2 finishes then in theory there should be at least a little wiggle room. It just seems to me that Dunboyne-Navan is now way off and the old RUI plan of getting something for relatively small spend should be dusted off.

07-03-2012, 21:34	#5
karlr42 Member Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 340	Biggest issue is probably the speed. The line travels due east from Navan, so it's a very poor alignment to get to Dublin, so that will add time. The line speed would probably be quite low given its freight-only status. After Drogheda you're crawling along on the congested mainline. I think it would be extremely difficult to offer an attractive timetabled speed for the journey.

08-03-2012, 03:35	#8
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	Does IE have differential speeds for freight and passenger in some parts of the network? It's common here in Canuckistan. Having say 60mph for passenger/40mph for freight might keep the impact on the track more manageable. Mind you "freight" is a bit different too with the mile long consists and double stack boxes etc. Going to higher grade track might allow 201s to do Taras if convenient at a given time rather than finding 071s or 111s to do it. I would like to see a policy where by say 2020 all passenger rail in the country had a line speed of 60mph or better (subject to reasonable PSRs for terrain etc) and if that couldn't be achieved in a given section then close the line to double down on lines that could be improved.

08-03-2012, 15:12	#10
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	It was really more a question of whether the track speed could be lifted for passenger service only or if that would cause regulatory problems. A project like this could be killed very easily if there was an insistence that all trains could reach the speed intended for passenger if that means significant additional capital cost.