[article] Rail passengers stranded for hours

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Irish Times

Rail passengers stranded for hours
Up to 40 rail passengers were stranded for more than three hours yesterday as the train they were travelling on broke down between stations.

A commuter train experienced a fault to its brakes before stopping just north of Dalkey station at about 10am. The driver was unable to get the train moving but passengers were not allowed to alight.

Services between Bray and Dún Laoghaire were halted for three hours.

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...303701072.html
© Irish Times 2011

[Mark Gleeson]

The 9:20 Bray Drogheda came to a halt about 300m north of Dalkey station

Unit 29x13 suffered a major brake failure which halted the train


This was discussed this morning with a senior Irish Rail manager and two investigations are underway. Passenger should have been moved to a replacement train much much sooner. There seemed to be a complete failure to focus on the passengers.

The train involved was dumped in Grand Canal Dock and was still there this morning

[Colm Moore]

Whatever happened to using a wheelchair ramp to cross from one train to the other?

I realise that doesn't work everywhere, e.g. where the tracks are further apart than normal, but surely one should plan for such contingencies by having a longer gangplank available - at less than 3 hours notice.

[Mark Gleeson]

That was my first suggestion

There seems to have been a complete failure to consider passengers in the situation and instead everything was focused on moving the train.

[Colm Moore]

Ah, maybe they didn't realise that trains carry passengers.

I think the passengers should bill them for their time.

[Inniskeen]

More disruption this morning - mid morning northbound DARTs flagged 30 minutes late. Most southbound peak services between 6 and 10 minutes late at Lansdowne Road. Northbound peak sevives generally less than 3 minutes late, except 0830 from Greystones which was 6 minutes late.

[James Howard]

I would think that that failing to consider passengers is pretty standard for Irish Rail. I've not had a delay this bad, but I have been stuck on a train for 90 minutes once and just short of two hours another time.

Planning is another thing that seems to be in pretty short supply. One would think that there should be a documented set of procedures to follow for reasonably foreseeable events such as brake failure.

With Irish Rail I always get the impression that passengers are an inconvenience at the best of times and a downright nuisance in a breakdown. With a new notable exceptions (the ticker collector from Mullingar that normally does the 0545 from Sligo being one), I find little evidence to suggest that Irish Rail staff give a damn about passengers.

[Mark Gleeson]

When I rang the manager in Irish Rail, before I'd even got beyond hello there was an admission of a major breakdown in the handling of the previous day. I further understand that most passengers involved received a phone call yesterday from a senior Irish Rail manager. So clearly things have changed in Irish Rail, but it should never have happened

There is a conflict here, now clearly passengers should be evacuated as soon as possible when it is clear that it will be faster than waiting for repair, but doing so in many cases forces a further suspension of services to ensure safety. The classic it will take 30 minutes to fix is the problem as the solution always looks imminent.

While we wrote part of the safety guidelines for passengers, there comes a point where passenger initiated evacuation is a reasonable response. We don't advise it but it has happened before and given Irish Rail's response this time in the event of a prolonged delay and where the driver of the train has been informed getting out and walking back is the best option. Clearly it is a risky option but it should only be attempted after notifying the driver of the train

[Thomas Ralph]

We have had several passenger-initiated evacuation incidents over here in the past couple of months, which is not at all fun in third-rail territory.

[Mark Gleeson]

The best advice, never place your foot on the rail itself, risk of slipping

[shweeney]

what's to stop passengers forcing the doors and walking back to the station themselves?

not safe obviously but holding people on a train for 3 hours only 300 metres from a station is tantamount to false imprisonment - its outrageous behaviour from IÉ.

[Mark Gleeson]

Nothing except the possibility of serious injury in an unsupervised evacuation.

In those circumstances I would have bailed, that said I've driven a train (not in Ireland) so I know the safe way to climb out but equally the rule book says stay put unless there is a very good reason, e.g. fire to get out.

We are awaiting Irish Rail to explain in detail what went wrong

[James Howard]

I don't think it would be a great idea to evacuate unsupervised as firstly it is obviously quite dangerous and secondly, you would be technically guilty of trespass on the railway.

However, I think the point about false imprisonment is quite valid. There obviously comes a point where depriving people of their liberty becomes unlawful imprisonment. Yes, there is a safety constraint here, it isn't purely safety. It is always possible to shut down the other line for long enough to do the evacuation but this is inconvenient to Irish Rail and their passengers.

So you could argue that keeping everyone on the train for three hours was a matter of convenience for Irish Rail and convenience is not really a valid reason for keeping everyone locked on a train for three hours.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by James Howard

Yes, there is a safety constraint here, it isn't purely safety. It is always possible to shut down the other line for long enough to do the evacuation but this is inconvenient to Irish Rail and their passengers.

Presumably while the train was disabled, the other line was quiet if not empty?

[Mark Gleeson]

In this case yes, however a passenger on foot would have met a train in motion on the opposite track a matter of meters from the stopped train as trains from Bray had to head north from Dalkey to cross over to return to Bray

Bailing out on the inside not advisable due a drainage channel and limited clearance. Previous case of a slip/fall when leaving train at this point as well.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

In this case yes, however a passenger on foot would have met a train in motion on the opposite track a matter of meters from the stopped train as trains from Bray had to head north from Dalkey to cross over to return to Bray

Bailing out on the inside not advisable due a drainage channel and limited clearance. Previous case of a slip/fall when leaving train at this point as well.

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that presumably Irish Rail have some plan for this situation? IIRC Translink have previously used a temporary walkway that can run to a train on the opposite line. Alternatively, the track could be closed during a supervised evacuation by stairs?

I understand that they might have been caught off guard by constantly thinking they were near a solution but surely they have some plan in case they realise it's a serious problem? I would hope that that, in light of the incident, they have no a cut-off time after which passengers will definitely be evacuated even if they think they're near a resolution.

[Mark Gleeson]

There are 3 ways to get people off,

1. Exit via cab and steps
2. Emergency ladder
3. Wheelchair ramp to train brought alongside

None were used and Irish Rail is at a loss to explain to us why not. There is no rule as to the evacuation times

Clearly this was a situational awareness issue, the focus on fixing the train led to a complete loss of time awareness. There should have been an evacuation within 60 minutes.

[James Howard]

Originally Posted by markpb

Sorry, I wasn't clear. What I meant was that presumably Irish Rail have some plan for this situation?

I've been stuck on trains or delayed for more than 90 minutes on about half a dozen difference occasions in 7 years of commuting and I must say that in none of these cases have I seen any evidence whatsoever of there being a plan for any situation.

On my last major delay we were stranded in Enfield for nearly 90 minutes while another train was on fire or something and nobody had the slightest notion of what was going on. When the replacement bus arrived, it loaded everyone on board before telling them that the bus was only going to Maynooth not the city centre so everyone got off. Then a second bus arrived and it was only going to Maynooth as well. Then when we got to Maynooth the line had reopened anyway. This is the sort of complete chaos I am talking about.

It is not unexpected that a single-line railway is going to get blocked and bus transfers are going to be required once or twice a month. It isn't exactly rocket-science to put some sort of procedures in place to look after passengers. Irish Rail appear to have no plan B for anything. More accurately, they probably have a dozen people employed making plan Bs, by nobody bothers to follow procedures.