Luas Security

[Mark Gleeson]

Watch the 6.1 news tonight.

RTE have obtained under FOI a comprehensive listing of 'incidents'

Where is the transport police we were promised?

[Mark Gleeson]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2010/0114/luas.html

Calls for transport police on Luas
Thursday, 14 January 2010 20:18
Security on Dublin's two Luas lines has been stepped up because of an increase in anti-social behaviour.

Figures obtained by RTÉ News under the Freedom of Information Act show that between 2007 and 2009 the number of incidents increased by over 100%.

Rail Users Ireland says the figures highlight the need for a dedicated transport police.

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Initial safety concerns centred on the number of collisions with cars, pedestrians and cyclists. But anti-social behaviour has also been on the rise.

Disorder on and around the tram and threats to passengers and staff were among the biggest problems.

Also there is concern about objects being thrown at the tram, people drinking, smoking, sleeping on the Luas, assaults on passengers and staff and pick-pocketing.

A small number of incidents involving petrol bombs, tear gas and flashers were also recorded.

Now security has been increased, with security guards patrolling seven nights a week.

The operators hope that the increased security presence on both lines will make more people realise that they are being watched on the Luas and that that in turn will help reduce the incidents of anti-social behaviour.

[on the move]

Saw your news report.

There are 380 tram journeys* on every workday, they can't all be policed. The few that are policed, serve as a mere time-wasting exercise of Garda resources, or a chance for Polish and Lithuanian security guards to chat to each other.

Some of the claims are valid, such as objects thrown and drinking, but some are invalid, e.g. "sleeping on board". That's just tiredness, not anti-social behaviour. What next, "feet on seats?", "mobile phones?" It's Dublin they're travelling in, not Beirut.

The biggest problem with the Luas is not to do with security, but the (laughably described as) "pedestrian access" at the Red Cow HQ stop. Despite the cost of erecting barriers and bridges, all that was required was to build a routine stop at the hotel. The current stop is the most anti-pedestrian transport stop I've ever used in the whole of Europe, and it's access alone puts people off using it.

*Red Line only, discounting Heuston-Connolly.

[markpb]

Originally Posted by on the move

There are 380 tram journeys* on every workday, they can't all be policed. The few that are policed, serve as a mere time-wasting exercise of Garda resources, or a chance for Polish and Lithuanian security guards to chat to each other.

In the same way that every bank in the country can't be policed - you just need enough officers with the authority to do something to serve as a deterrent. A surprisingly small number of officers could respond quickly to an incident on each line - they're not very long.

[Mark Gleeson]

Veoila's approach is to put some people out there to discourage trouble. The security has very little actual power and the trouble makers know that. There have been some very serious incidents, petrol bombs? Security don't look too friendly

There are 40 stops and a frequent service wouldn't need many people to react quickly. In the UK the transport operator staff can be trained and certified by the British Transport Police and given limited powers

Its not Veoila's or any other operators fault these issues are occurring its a social issue at large, but they have a responsibility to the safety of their passengers

[Thomas Ralph]

Even the simplest things such as fare evasion aren't dealt with efficiently. Law-abiding passengers comply and pay their €45 if they're caught, but skangers just point-blank refuse to give any details and stay on the tram until the guards are mentioned, at which stage they waltz off at the next stop.

Dublin Bus inspectors are entitled to detain people, why can't they extend that?

[Mark Gleeson]

Under the transport act Veoila and RPA staff can detain but its hard to enforce (Dublin Bus have it explicitly mentioned in the bye laws). Policy is not to confront.

Irish Rail staff who have exercised their power under the act have found themselves in A&E in Loughlinstown

[on the move]

Originally Posted by Thomas Ralph

Veoila's approach is to put some people out there to discourage trouble. The security has very little actual power and the trouble makers know that. There have been some very serious incidents, petrol bombs? Security don't look too friendly

There are 40 stops and a frequent service wouldn't need many people to react quickly. In the UK the transport operator staff can be trained and certified by the British Transport Police and given limited powers

Its not Veoila's or any other operators fault these issues are occurring its a social issue at large, but they have a responsibility to the safety of their passengers.

As regards security, the most I've ever seen STT do, is remove cans from passengers, and remove sleeping-paralytic passengers who haven't got off at the previous terminus. Apart from those rare occasions, all they do is talk in some language nobody else understands, and the level of existent security is little more than window-dressing.

[Mark Gleeson]

They legally can do little more, thats why you need a transport police. Most countries have a transport police and having had the chance to attend a lecture by the now head of the British Transport Police having a police unit which understand the needs of the transport operator is the key to dealing with the problem while keeping services running.

One thing I will credit Veoila and the RPA is their pursuit of cases where an arrest is made, the full force of the law is applied, multiple barring orders have been issued

[on the move]

Originally Posted by on the move

The biggest problem with the Luas is not to do with security, but the (laughably described as) "pedestrian access" at the Red Cow HQ stop. The current stop is the most anti-pedestrian transport stop I've ever used in the whole of Europe, and it's access alone puts people off using it.

Had to use it last night, in what could best be described as appalling weather conditions. Going up/down that bridge is extremely dangerous in such weather, as you could either be blown off it completely, and putting a bridge over an electric cable in lashing rain is asking for trouble. It is an insult to treat paying customers like that, basically saying that without a car, you're not welcome to board/alight a tram there.

One of the few plus points of the location is, you can speak to drivers resuming their shift. Everyone of them I've spoken to, agree on it's awkwardness for pedestrians, and wonder why nothing is done about it.

[dowlingm]

The only concern I'd have with a separate Transport Police would be the interface with the guards. Look at the ongoing bad blood between the Dublin Airport Police and the guards for an example of what we wouldn't want to end up with.