Overcrowding -Evening Herald

[Mark Gleeson]

Page 8 tonights Herald has a slightly OTT piece on a over crowded train between Tralee and Dublin

We understand people frustration but one basic fact remains they boarded the train in full knowledge it was full and that they would have to stand

A bus was made available at Thurles but no one availed of the option

Full scan later but this curious notice appeared in the IE site shortly after 14:45

Originally Posted by IE

Heavy Demand for Cork and Kerry Rail Services, Advanced Booking Advised by Corporate Communications

Due to expected heavy demand on all rail services from Cork and Kerry tomorrow, 11th August, Iarnród Éireann advise all intending customers to purchase tickets in advance at www.irishrail.ie or by calling the telesales lines (021)4557185 or (066)7193033 in order to guarantee a seat.

Ass coverage ??

[Mark Gleeson]

As some might expect from the herald the quailty of journalism is poor

No date or train time is given there is only one direct train from Tralee to Dublin and it leaves at 9:15 am, and it takes close to 4 hours

Fact is simple we live in a country where everyone thinks they have the right to show up 10 minutes before the train is due and get a seat regardless of any other factors. If you want a seat you book in advance and seat reservations are free of charge

There is no safety guidance in Ireland or in Europe concerning the safe level of crowding, the trains are designed to take massive passenger loads on paper the train will never reach a unsafe state.

The advice is if you are unhappy with the level of crowding don't get on. You are entitled to a full refund in this case

[Derek Wheeler]

I read this at lunch time and its poor journalism from our point of view, but to the average joe, its damn good fodder, slating IE.

The use of excuses, such as "people turning up 10 minutes before train departure and expecting to get a seat or get on and be comfortable", has no place in P11 commentary. In saying that it may well be an issue that we can get involved in and perhaps, "assist" IE with, in line with our forthcoming promotion of various customer issues. But until our transition in this area is complete and a good working relationship with IE is in place,(all on the way soon folks) our only response to this article can be one of condemnation.

Why?

Well, because IE "allow" this overcrowding to happen. They have no promotional campaigns alerting people to potential overcrowding problems. They shy away from the policy of refusing people access to a train due to overcrowding, with the excuse that some people may become "irrate". (they get irrate anyway)There has never been a simple system of knowing how many are on board, regardless of "fancy hokey cokey booking systems". State a loading capacity, monitor embarkcation and dis-embarkcation, station to station, problem solved. "you bought a ticket? Sorry train is full. Can't let you on for safety reasons. You're entitled to a refund." No doubt a scenario like this will generate pages of scandal in the herald aswell. But at least its clearcut policy. Something tells me that the terms and conditions will prevent this. So that brings me back to my original point above. Use the advertising space to promote and educate passengers. Involve the likes of P11. But either way, have some kind of policy, instead of trying to change the lightbulb in the dark.

[Oisin88]

Originally Posted by Derek Wheeler

The use of excuses, such as "people turning up 10 minutes before train departure and expecting to get a seat or get on and be comfortable", has no place in P11 commentary. In saying that it may well be an issue that we can get involved in and perhaps, "assist" IE with, in line with our forthcoming promotion of various customer issues.

I have a feeling that in civilised country this type of inter city train would have mostly reserved seats and then 1-2 carriages of unreserved seats. If most people book in advance that would allow <<PLANNING>>
However, like in alot of things in this country "that's not the way things happen"

[Colm Donoghue]

I read a story either here, on boards or Shudder IRN about ICE in germany at holiday time.
Some ICE carriages were so overloaded, they wouldn't move because there's a weight sensor in the axels and the sheer weight of passengers tripped the sensors.

I couldn't see this happening on a train here.
( probably cos there's no weight sensors )

[Mark Gleeson]

Thats very very true, on tilting trains weight is critical and if the suspension weight system registers above a certain amount it will lock the tilt out, this has happened in the UK as well, SNCF don't permit standing on TGV services

All modern trains have weight sensing systems, the suspension is used to level the train regardless of load and the brakes apply harder the more weight in the coach, the DART puts down more tractive effort when the coach is heavy

You can book online, by phone or in person up to one hour before departure its free, you don't just get the bug to go to Cork for the weekend at 4pm on a Friday, even if I did it would take me the best part of an hour to get to Heuston

He who books will be rewarded, you have no one other than yourself to blame if you end up standing since for most trains you have a choice to book. Best thing is if it all goes pear shapped and you end up standing its a full refund for you

[sandraoh]

I can't book because I have an annual ticket. I can get on any train in the country with my ticket because it covers all services but if I was offered a refund it would be about 3euro in vouchers which are useless to me as I have a ticket covering all services.

Can these vouchers be put towards the cost of my next annual ticket? Or towards a cup of tea?

[Mark Gleeson]

We are stilll waiting for the annual ticket situation to be confirmed, that said we need a guniea pig to march into Abbey Street with a annual ticket to see what happens

[sandraoh]

a guinea pig with an all services annual ticket?

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by sandraoh

a guinea pig with an all services annual ticket?

Wonder where we will find one......

[sean]

Originally Posted by colmd

I read a story either here, on boards or Shudder IRN about ICE in germany at holiday time.
Some ICE carriages were so overloaded, they wouldn't move because there's a weight sensor in the axels and the sheer weight of passengers tripped the sensors.

Well, it must have been really stuffed like a sardine can because I used the ICE once and it was stuffed solid - but kept moving.

I was going from Munich to Berlin.

Leaving Munich, all seats taken, some take space on the floor. A couple of stops on, more people join the train and sit on the floor. Then, half the bleedin' German army out on leave or something joins the train, and proceed to sit on just about every square inch of floorspace all over the train.

Of course I didn't give a sod because I already had a seat (and those ICEs are like rolling 5 star hotels), the only time I noticed was when I went to go the restaurant car to get some food (which by the way was very nice and not overly expensive).

Sure it was tight, but the important thing is that everyone got where they were going in a reasonable level of comfort.

[Colm Donoghue]

Sean,
When I heard it, you told that story about the army, and someone piped in after about the overweight story.

[sean]

that was probably it.

my point about the "overweight" story, was that the overweight train must have been stuffed like something out of Calcutta for that to happen. AFAIK standard overcrowding won't cause an ICE many problems either from a passenger comfort or technical viewpoint, given my (limited) experience.

[Mark Gleeson]

If its a non titling you can load and load until you can fit no more and its fine, if it tilts then there are limits, more than 15 standing per coach in a Pendelino in the UK is enough to trigger the overweight alarm

[ccos]

I've been on those ICE trains regulary on a Friday evening (Frankfurt to Amsterdam) and some were loaded to the gills, a bit like an african bus ie. always room for one more and they kept rolling, interestingly the beer is cheaper than the water in the dining car.