"exact fare only" but there's no way of knowing what it is

Colm Donoghue · 02-08-2006, 17:50

On a thread on boards.ie someone complained about IE not accepting a 50 note for a train ticket.

Mark G said if people had the exact fare, it would shorten queues.

Now I imagine one way of finding out the fare would be to look up IE or CIE's website. I mean there must be a record of all the fares IE can charge. I'm guessing it's in some machine readable format cos the ticket machines are, well, machines.

So looking up the irish rail website - No price list
Looking up Iarnrod Eireann's website( not the same thing) a link to a Fare Enquiry page.
This has a list of 18 destinations, all from Dublin. If you want to know other ticket prices, you can ring somebody or fill in an email form.

What are the people answering the phone or reading the email enquiry going to read to find out the prices that cannot be put on the web?

I call bullsh1t.
The same page in the Iarnroid Eireann website has a link to Dart and Suburban prepaid fares. however when I click on the link, I get:
"Forbidden
You are not permitted to access the remote system.
more bovine fecal matter.

If this is an error, then you should contact your local firewall administrator. "

Another issue is the non acceptance of credit/debit cards at train/tram stations where large banknotes is a problem.

Park and ride carparks for Luas take visa for two euro charges. IE or rpa/veoila won't take visa stating it's too small an amount but if you spend more money we'll take it.
again I call bullsh1t: the most you can spend in a luas park and ride is 4 euro,
I doubt the carpark is loosing money per transaction.

Mark Gleeson · 02-08-2006, 18:07

Point is most people make the same journey day in day out so they know the fare irrespective of the laziness of IE and Connex

When the fares go up they are plastered everywhere

We have the matrix http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...res_matrix.php. The gadet on the IE site http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/dart/yo...cash_fares.asp does actually work

The issue is more for Luas really since the machines are really really slow at giving out change, again we have da fares http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/luas_fares.php

The limit is €5 on Luas and IE machines to be fair to IE they don't charge for credit card booking

You want to know what is annoying the luas smart card has to be topped up by a minimum of 5 euro, no reason at all for that

Colm Donoghue · 03-08-2006, 07:42

and how would joe soap find the page
http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/dart/yo...cash_fares.asp

If you do a search for cash fares on Irish rail and Iarnroid Eireann

you get

Search Results for "dart cash fares"

No results found in:
General News
Travel Alerts
Special Offers
Press Releases
Jobs
Procurement
Your Station
FAQ
Rest of site

Mark Gleeson · 03-08-2006, 08:11

Well www.dart.ie

There appears to be a turf war inside IE about who controls the website so they have 3 to keep everyone happy, its so sad but it is true

sponge · 03-08-2006, 08:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by colmd

and how would joe soap find the page
http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/dart/yo...cash_fares.asp

If you do a search for cash fares on Irish rail and Iarnroid Eireann

you get

Search Results for "dart cash fares"

No results found in:
General News
Travel Alerts
Special Offers
Press Releases
Jobs
Procurement
Your Station
FAQ
Rest of site

Go to http://www.dart.ie and click on your ticket, not really very difficult. Though they could change the name of the banner to something more meaningful.

Colm Donoghue · 03-08-2006, 10:56

I travel from an Irish rail station every day. DART doesn't go to my station.
Why would I look up dart.ie instead of irish rail?
When I search irish rail's website, I get no links to dart.ie

IE and CIE in general should publish their fares on the internet. full stop. no bullsh1t about it being on some somewhat related website or ring us and we might tell you or <insert rediculous excuse here>

PaulM · 03-08-2006, 11:06

CIE need to get ONE comprehensive webiste with all modes of transport under their remit mentioned. The way it is now is terrible. It bothers me that our webiste has more useful information than their 4 or 5.

Mark Gleeson · 03-08-2006, 11:08

I can't repeat in public what I have been told about the IE website but there is internal struggle over who has power, note the break way irishrail.ie vs iarnrodeireann.ie

It would be trivial to code up a page to return the fares between any two points, its fairly simple they already have this since the booking office ticket machines can cope with it

Intercity to Dublin Suburban is easy work out, Intercity to Intercity via Heuston and Connolly is interesting

MrX · 03-08-2006, 12:10

My one major gripe with both IE and Viola (Connex) when it comes to their ticket machines is that they are not accepting AIB Laser/Maestro cards since the introduction of Chip & PIN.

It seems to me that it's rather urgent that they upgrade their machines to Chip & PIN too. This is already the case in the London Underground etc.

The current machines are way too wide open to fraudulant use of a card to purchase tickets.

E.g. I could simply pick up any credit card and buy the most expensive intercity ticket you can up with, and almost any number of them. No authorisation required....

Mark Gleeson · 03-08-2006, 12:19

Trintech have the chip and pin contract with CIE group that was signed in 2004

MrX · 03-08-2006, 18:10

Donno that trintech will implement Chip and Pin on those machines though. I assume it's a package from their manufacturer.

They also are not currently using chip and pin over the counter either. My Laser/Maestro card woudln't allow them to bypass it last time and I had to go get cash out!

MrX · 03-08-2006, 18:10

Donno that trintech will implement Chip and Pin on those machines though. I assume it's a package from their manufacturer.

They also are not currently using chip and pin over the counter either. My Laser/Maestro card woudln't allow them to bypass it last time and I had to go get cash out!

Also the machines occasionally display the Solo/Switch logo! Which they do not accept.

Oisin88 · 03-08-2006, 22:08

Quote:

My one major gripe with both IE and Viola (Connex) when it comes to their ticket machines is that they are not accepting AIB Laser/Maestro cards since the introduction of Chip & PIN.

I tried my MBNA visa card and my American Express on 2 or three Luas machines to top up my smart card. Didn't work, so I ended up paying cash as I had a negative balance!! I thought there was something wrong with my cards not the machine!!

PaulM · 04-08-2006, 15:50

Chip and pin would require a large software update. I would think effectively a re-write of all the sofware on the machine. It uses a different set of standards and protocols to mag stripe verification. I would think the expense / risk isn't matched by any financial gain. Credit card transaction cost up to 5% of the transaction price, not worth their while for the small amounts of money per transaction.

Regarding switch, that is now Maestro which is the international form of laser. No reason it shouldn't work. Old card?

Paul - Ex-chip & pin guy.

Colm Donoghue · 08-08-2006, 10:31

chip and pin visa card works to pay for luas' 2 euro park and ride fee.
yet for IE and luas tickets you have to spend more.

chip and pin is hardly unique new technology that sprung out of the blue.

Thomas J Stamp · 08-08-2006, 22:15

I never heard of www.dart.ie before i read this thread but the reasons for it, as said abovce, are a micocosim of all that is wrong in IE's managment.

As for "exact fare" the gist i got from the original thread on boards was that the person atthe ticket office simply had a note that the ticket office didnt have enough change for. That's fair enough.

There's exact change only on DB, has been for years and years. In relation to Chip and pin, it can hold things up a lot. I use it all the time and sometimes it flies sometimes you can be waiting a couple of minuites for the dammed thing to work. I dont think its the solution to a busy surburban station during rush hours.

02-08-2006, 17:50	#1
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	"exact fare only" but there's no way of knowing what it is On a thread on boards.ie someone complained about IE not accepting a 50 note for a train ticket. Mark G said if people had the exact fare, it would shorten queues. Now I imagine one way of finding out the fare would be to look up IE or CIE's website. I mean there must be a record of all the fares IE can charge. I'm guessing it's in some machine readable format cos the ticket machines are, well, machines. So looking up the irish rail website - No price list Looking up Iarnrod Eireann's website( not the same thing) a link to a Fare Enquiry page. This has a list of 18 destinations, all from Dublin. If you want to know other ticket prices, you can ring somebody or fill in an email form. What are the people answering the phone or reading the email enquiry going to read to find out the prices that cannot be put on the web? I call bullsh1t. The same page in the Iarnroid Eireann website has a link to Dart and Suburban prepaid fares. however when I click on the link, I get: "Forbidden You are not permitted to access the remote system. more bovine fecal matter. If this is an error, then you should contact your local firewall administrator. " Another issue is the non acceptance of credit/debit cards at train/tram stations where large banknotes is a problem. Park and ride carparks for Luas take visa for two euro charges. IE or rpa/veoila won't take visa stating it's too small an amount but if you spend more money we'll take it. again I call bullsh1t: the most you can spend in a luas park and ride is 4 euro, I doubt the carpark is loosing money per transaction.

03-08-2006, 07:42	#3
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	and how would joe soap find the page http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/dart/yo...cash_fares.asp If you do a search for cash fares on Irish rail and Iarnroid Eireann you get Search Results for "dart cash fares" No results found in: General News Travel Alerts Special Offers Press Releases Jobs Procurement Your Station FAQ Rest of site Last edited by Colm Donoghue : 03-08-2006 at 07:45.

03-08-2006, 18:10	#12
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	Donno that trintech will implement Chip and Pin on those machines though. I assume it's a package from their manufacturer. They also are not currently using chip and pin over the counter either. My Laser/Maestro card woudln't allow them to bypass it last time and I had to go get cash out! Also the machines occasionally display the Solo/Switch logo! Which they do not accept. Last edited by MrX : 03-08-2006 at 18:12.

08-08-2006, 22:15	#16
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	I never heard of www.dart.ie before i read this thread but the reasons for it, as said abovce, are a micocosim of all that is wrong in IE's managment. As for "exact fare" the gist i got from the original thread on boards was that the person atthe ticket office simply had a note that the ticket office didnt have enough change for. That's fair enough. There's exact change only on DB, has been for years and years. In relation to Chip and pin, it can hold things up a lot. I use it all the time and sometimes it flies sometimes you can be waiting a couple of minuites for the dammed thing to work. I dont think its the solution to a busy surburban station during rush hours. __________________ We are the passengers

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02-08-2006, 18:07	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Point is most people make the same journey day in day out so they know the fare irrespective of the laziness of IE and Connex When the fares go up they are plastered everywhere We have the matrix http://www.platform11.org/passenger_...res_matrix.php. The gadet on the IE site http://www.iarnrodeireann.ie/dart/yo...cash_fares.asp does actually work The issue is more for Luas really since the machines are really really slow at giving out change, again we have da fares http://www.platform11.org/passenger_info/luas_fares.php The limit is €5 on Luas and IE machines to be fair to IE they don't charge for credit card booking You want to know what is annoying the luas smart card has to be topped up by a minimum of 5 euro, no reason at all for that

03-08-2006, 08:11	#4
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Well www.dart.ie There appears to be a turf war inside IE about who controls the website so they have 3 to keep everyone happy, its so sad but it is true

03-08-2006, 10:56	#6
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	I travel from an Irish rail station every day. DART doesn't go to my station. Why would I look up dart.ie instead of irish rail? When I search irish rail's website, I get no links to dart.ie IE and CIE in general should publish their fares on the internet. full stop. no bullsh1t about it being on some somewhat related website or ring us and we might tell you or <insert rediculous excuse here>

03-08-2006, 11:06	#7
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	CIE need to get ONE comprehensive webiste with all modes of transport under their remit mentioned. The way it is now is terrible. It bothers me that our webiste has more useful information than their 4 or 5.

03-08-2006, 11:08	#8
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	I can't repeat in public what I have been told about the IE website but there is internal struggle over who has power, note the break way irishrail.ie vs iarnrodeireann.ie It would be trivial to code up a page to return the fares between any two points, its fairly simple they already have this since the booking office ticket machines can cope with it Intercity to Dublin Suburban is easy work out, Intercity to Intercity via Heuston and Connolly is interesting

03-08-2006, 12:10	#9
MrX Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 585	My one major gripe with both IE and Viola (Connex) when it comes to their ticket machines is that they are not accepting AIB Laser/Maestro cards since the introduction of Chip & PIN. It seems to me that it's rather urgent that they upgrade their machines to Chip & PIN too. This is already the case in the London Underground etc. The current machines are way too wide open to fraudulant use of a card to purchase tickets. E.g. I could simply pick up any credit card and buy the most expensive intercity ticket you can up with, and almost any number of them. No authorisation required....

03-08-2006, 12:19	#10
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Trintech have the chip and pin contract with CIE group that was signed in 2004

04-08-2006, 15:50	#14
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	Chip and pin would require a large software update. I would think effectively a re-write of all the sofware on the machine. It uses a different set of standards and protocols to mag stripe verification. I would think the expense / risk isn't matched by any financial gain. Credit card transaction cost up to 5% of the transaction price, not worth their while for the small amounts of money per transaction. Regarding switch, that is now Maestro which is the international form of laser. No reason it shouldn't work. Old card? Paul - Ex-chip & pin guy.

08-08-2006, 10:31	#15
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	chip and pin visa card works to pay for luas' 2 euro park and ride fee. yet for IE and luas tickets you have to spend more. chip and pin is hardly unique new technology that sprung out of the blue.