Luas Strike Dates Announced

[berneyarms]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

SIPTU and drivers buckle under pressure, strikes on 8/9/10 June moved to 6-10pm so not to impact on LC/JC students. They allege they were not aware of the impact on students when planning.

Transdev will also be rather happy as it's will be a quiet time of day.

Not sure about the last line.

Bear in mind that trams will be taken out of service as they pass the depot the last time before 18:00.

As a result services will wind down from about 90 mins before 6pm - so a fair chunk of the evening peak will be cancelled as well as the four hours from 6pm to 10pm, and there'll be disruption later too.

[Jamie2k9]

Not sure about the last line.

Bear in mind that trams will be taken out of service as they pass the depot the last time before 18:00.

As a result services will wind down from about 90 mins before 6pm - so a fair chunk of the evening peak will be cancelled as well as the four hours from 6pm to 10pm, and there'll be disruption later too.

I think they would prefer the new times because while peak will be impacted the impact will be far less severe and when services resume at 10 pm its a 15-20 minute schedule so not to hard to get back on tract compared to the 5-7 minute after 1pm.

As for winding down 90 minutes before 6pm, not sure how it will work but the strike is from 6pm then I would expect any drivers on an active tram up to 5.59 would have to complete the full journeys.

Irish Rail strikes forced drivers to depart before 6am the last few times even if only 10 minutes so I don't see this been any different unless SIPTU want to expose themselves to legal action.

[James Howard]

Now we find out what this strike is really about

http://www.irishtimes.com/business/t...ices-1.2648858

[Jamie2k9]

http://www.rte.ie/news/2016/0516/788...ck-pay-scheme/

Luas operator Transdev has suspended the sick pay scheme for workers who have been in dispute with the company over pay.

In a letter sent to SIPTU on Friday, Managing Director Gerry Madden said that the absence rate for Luas drivers is currently running at approximately 12%, with over 10% of that attributable to the sick pay scheme.

He said this compares to an average absence figure for drivers of approximately 4.5% in 2015.

Mr Madden said that such a level of absence is imposing significant additional costs on the company and is highly disruptive to customers.

The letter said the company is now invoking an existing agreement which states that if the absence level rises above 5%, management has the right to suspend individuals from the regular sick pay scheme "in its entirety or as otherwise may be stated".

The company said is suspending all individual drivers from the regular sick pay benefit scheme and will not be processing any regular sick pay payments in the May payroll and thereafter pending a return to normal absence levels.

[James Howard]

I don't understand how the union can object if they aren't disputing the figures. There is an agreement that the sick pay scheme is suspended if absenteeism exceeds 5%. It's running at 12% hence the scheme is suspended.

Uncertified sick leave is entirely at the pleasure of the employer and only works if people aren't abusing it.

[Jamie2k9]

Drivers to lose full days pay for each 4 hour stoppages.....only option is to call it off or put up with the cut. Really put fuel on the fire now as I expect drivers thought they would get away with it!

SIPTU branded them out of control

[James Howard]

Short stoppages are kind of taking the mickey a bit. With a stoppage from 6 to 10, you would have no trams for more than 6 hours and really very little incentive to start up again in the evening after 10pm.

The thing with short stoppages is that they do sort of require a bit of co-operation between management and employees. Wouldn't management be entitled to say to drivers they need to drive right up until 6PM and then since they'd signed out for a tram, they'd be responsible for it until the end of the strike period and so would basically be stuck on it.

[Mark Gleeson]

Rule book says driver cannot leave a tram unattended unless control say ok, so everyone is going back to depot

[James Howard]

It is going to be interesting to see the reaction to this. I am surprised at Transdev's approach. I would have expected them to take the same approach as the last Irish Rail strike where any journeys started before stopping time had to be finished before anyone went back to depot. That would have been enough to take the teeth out of a 6PM stop.

Transdev's approach is high-risk and I can see it causing more disruption than the planned stoppage but perhaps the shift-change arrangements make it a moot point anyway.

[Jamie2k9]

Originally Posted by James Howard

It is going to be interesting to see the reaction to this. I am surprised at Transdev's approach. I would have expected them to take the same approach as the last Irish Rail strike where any journeys started before stopping time had to be finished before anyone went back to depot. That would have been enough to take the teeth out of a 6PM stop.

Transdev's approach is high-risk and I can see it causing more disruption than the planned stoppage but perhaps the shift-change arrangements make it a moot point anyway.

They only have two options to respond:
1 - Call off the 4 days and issue new 24/48 hour strikes with 3 weeks notice
2 - Work for free and strike for the 4 hours

They cannot do anything else and if they call it off it will be an embarrassment to them and SIPTU however I'm not sure they will work either.

The response to the above will be important as it will test drivers and the union as if they call it off they showing they are coming under financial pressure. As one of the Stuarts said last we "we are not moving on this", well we will find out on Friday how committed they are!

The approach is high risk but also high reward, I must say I would of expected the 10% cut to be increased and not this but Transdev are not messing around. They are making SIPTU look pathetic and they are out at sea as nobody has ever stood up to them like TD in a long time if at all.

I fully expect Transdev will also ensure trams run until 17.59 if they go ahead, they would be stupid not to

I don't think the latest action will be enough for SIPTU to sanction an all out vote however I think that if it continues jobs will be next and it may happen then.

Transdev will stick it out and with them bidding for bus routes as well they do seem committed to Ireland. Think the costs would need to exceed well over a million before they consider the position.

It has made the NBRU pipe up again today ahead of their meetings with Irish Rail tomorrow. Something tells me we won't be seeing anything less than 24h stoppages if they happen within IE again.

[Thomas J Stamp]

The sick pay thing seems to be, from what I have read, a no risk thing legally for Transdev to do. Even if they are breeching the contract the only remedy the union has is to go the WRC or the Labour Court, which is where they already are. There seems to be a bit of clever PR by Transdev - the % of sick days is usually per employee, not the workforce as a whole and if you as an individual haven't gone over it they cant suspend you - and certainly not retrospectively. As SIPTU says, if they had done it they would be injuncted. Welcome to the 21st Century lads.

As for striking days pay deductions, I'm actually shocked that they have obviously been paid during their strike days up till now. There is no obligation on Transdev to do it. They may be breeching the contract of employment by deducting an entire days pay for a 4 hour stoppage, but again, the first port of call to settle these claims is the WRC/Labour court so there is pretty little the union can do at this moment.

The whole thing has been a PR disaster from the union anyway. They lost this dispute in the eyes of the public from day one with the 52% thing (even though the Junior Doctors thing has been debunked its still commonly being accepted, along with the line that Luas drivers only slide a thing up and down).

Transdev say they have no dosh, but they can afford to bid for Bus Routes. That'll be fun, search for Transdev on twitter and see what our UK neighbours have to say about their bus operations.

Interesting few lines from an independent article last month:

http://www.independent.ie/business/i...-34593180.html

Transdev reported a loss of around €700,000 in its last fiscal year.

Losses for this year are likely to be "significantly higher" in light of strike action, one person familiar with the difficulties said.

The contract to operate the Luas "is, purely fiscally, not worth hanging onto" for Transdev, the person said.

Transdev's UK and Ireland chief executive Nigel Stevens maintained last week that the company is "100pc committed to the fulfilment of the current contract up to 2019 and hopes that its role in the Irish market can extend long beyond this."

Luas would appear to to being operated by Transdev as an opening for bigger fish in the irish market, and despite their saying otherwise, they seem to have no problem getting cash from somewhere to plug the €700,000 last year.

[Jamie2k9]

They have lost 11 full days pay already, TD said the fines were 1.1 milion and they saved around 400,000-500,000 in wages. Not sure how you thought they were paid.

As for the Indo comments pinch of salt comes to mind, given when the contract was agreed/renwed in 2009? lots has changed since then. We know TII will be paying out more for next contract.

Could well be some creative accounting goong on!

Buses a different story but the fact someone other than DB in Dublin is good.

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Jamie2k9

They have lost 11 full days pay already, TD said the fines were 1.1 milion and they saved around 400,000-500,000 in wages. Not sure how you thought they were paid.

As for the Indo comments pinch of salt comes to mind, given when the contract was agreed/renwed in 2009? lots has changed since then. We know TII will be paying out more for next contract.

Could well be some creative accounting goong on!

Buses a different story but the fact someone other than DB in Dublin is good.

if they weren't being paid, why is it news that their pay is about to be docked for going on further strikes? that's what struck me as odd.

[Colm Moore]

If I have it right:

Original situation, before strike - paid as normal, with bonus

Non-strike days at the start of the strike - paid as normal, no bonus
Full days strike at the start of the strike - not paid

Non-strike days now - paid, less 10%, no bonus
Part-day strike now - paid for hours worked less the time it takes the tram to get back to depot, less 10%, no bonus
Full days strike now - not paid

So if a tram is at The Point before a strike and it will take 30-40 minutes to get back to the depot out of service, then they aren't paid for that 30-40 minutes.

[Jamie2k9]

If I have it right:

Original situation, before strike - paid as normal, with bonus

Non-strike days at the start of the strike - paid as normal, no bonus
Full days strike at the start of the strike - not paid

Non-strike days now - paid, less 10%, no bonus
Part-day strike now - paid for hours worked less the time it takes the tram to get back to depot, less 10%, no bonus
Full days strike now - not paid

So if a tram is at The Point before a strike and it will take 30-40 minutes to get back to the depot out of service, then they aren't paid for that 30-40 minutes.

I think your correct, expect no pay for full day during partial strikes.

Today both sides accused one another of been unlawful! TD reiterated they were not going to treat drivers any different to other grands in terms of pay. They said they will do further lawful things is it's not resolved soon.

All eyes on the response today from them!

[Thomas J Stamp]

you cant deduct pay on a non strike day if you have already not paid them for a strike day, that's illegal for a start under the payments of wages act.

I was listening to the end of the pat Kenny show today and they were talking about it, and there is some confusion about the sick pay being stopped. There is a difference of belief out there (which is all it is till we actually see a luas drivers contract) that the sick pay scheme is open to suspension if there is a culmative workforce wide usage over a certain % of days. If so, whoever negotiated that for the workers (probably SIPTU) is a cretin. All such benefits and entitlements should accrue individually and be governed individually not globally. If someone who has never gone sick now has to, they're screwed (if this is true, SIPTU says it isn't and therefore illegal).

You do wonder, again, where TD are getting the money for the fines (about a million) and to fund the operating losses from, since they say they have only the fee they were paid by the Gov to run the service as their only source of income.

[Jamie2k9]

Ballot for all out strike to take place within 2 weeks.....but they seem disparate to return to WRC or Labour Court.

TD have also cut some annual leave as well apparently.

Edit- All out comments from shop stewart, SIPTU have taken no decision on it.

[Mark Gleeson]

One interesting point is Transdev have not been fined, the 10 million euro bond is untouched.

Transdev don't get paid for day where the service isn't provided thats about 100,000 euro/day.

TII/NTA have two nuclear options
1. Call in the 10 million bond
2. Terminate and step in


SIPTU really want the terminate and step in as it gets Transdev out of the way and then its the state cheque book.

[Jamie2k9]

One interesting point is Transdev have not been fined, the 10 million euro bond is untouched.

Transdev don't get paid for day where the service isn't provided thats about 100,000 euro/day.

TII/NTA have two nuclear options
1. Call in the 10 million bond
2. Terminate and step in


SIPTU really want the terminate and step in as it gets Transdev out of the way and then its the state cheque book.

We know the NTA/TII won't do either option, it would be counter productive and costly if they did. We could manage with no Luas service pretty well over the summer months if it comes to that and SUPTU know that. The Dail on holidays would also help. DB etc all cut schedules so they have capacity if needed.

The disagreement between SIPTU and Shop Stuart last night is interesting and the union have said today they would support drivers but you get the impression it's something they really don't want.

Bet an all out ballot may not get 100% backing at all by some drivers.

[Mickey H]

What is the earliest date an all out strike could start?