[IT letter] Sharp decline in rail freight

[Kevin K Kelehan]

I'm not so sure that most freight in the UK other than coal and other minerals/aggregates has both it's origin and destination within the EWS zone; a lot of it appears to be coming through the Channel Tunnell or from ports such as Felixstowe or Southampton and then proceeds onwards to major landlocked centres of population such as M4 Corridor/ West London and to a greater extent Birmingham, Manchester or Leeds.

With the importance of container freight as being almost dominent in rail freight one must wonder if the proposed move of Cork port to Ringaskiddy is such a wise one. I certainly agree that it should move out of the City Centre given the value of its existing sites and the opportunity that disposal of same would give to invest in new facilities. There is also a big but in this and that I feel is that all major inter-modal transport hubs should offer the rail alternative.

Section Three: The Port of Cork

The Port of Cork, along with appointed consultants RPS Group, are progressing with their relocation and expansion plans to their lands at Ringaskiddy. As an important economic driver to the Southern Region, the relocation strategy will be of the utmost importance for the Port if it is the continue its development and provide the best available facilities to its market. Masterplans are still under review on the phased development which is expected to cost upwards of €200m to realise. This significant investment will help secure the Port's standing and edge in maritime commercial and leisure activities. The development will begin with work, including extensive drudging, along the Oyster Bank portion of the Ringaskiddy lands - provision will be made here for an extensive new Container Terminal. South of this plan, new provision will be made for a multi-purpose Roll-On/Roll-Off Berth and Storage - both these areas are highlighted in the aerial image below.



Additional expansion efforts will be concentrated on lands to the east of these zones. The scheduling of this move will depend on a number of variables - not least the provision of the new 13km Cork/Ringaskiddy Dual-Carriageway (which is progressing through the planning process), pace of Docklands development and financial flows. It is expected for significant progress to be made in the near future.

The above is courtesy of Lexington on archiseek

[MrX]

It's a combination of factors really.

1) Irish industry has changed drastically over the last 10+ years. We did have a few heavy manufacturing businesses e.g. mines etc that did require bulk freight. These, as has been pointed out further up the board, have disappeared or become insignifigant. The majority of Irish manufactured goods are small, high value and transported in single containers that make more sense by truck.

2) IE's network's not extensive enough to provide direct access to most businesses.

3) Freight by road has become extremely compeditive and truck drivers are being forced to operate to almost ridiculous levels of low cost.

4) Long distance freight's is usually hauled via a ro-ro ferry.

5) IE's internal problems - strikes, costs, etc etc

6) (very important) the fact that businesses expect just-in-time freight deliveries. Rail freight simply isn't that rapid and efficient.

The only way IE could make rail freight more compeditive would be to develop 2 or 3 major and seriously efficient freight hubs capable of moving stuff from trucks to rail in the fastest possible manner.

Alternatively, you'd have to look at perhaps ro-ro rail freight and I dont think the mainline network would have suitable height clearances.

It'd made sense between Dublin-Cork etc..

The other issue is that freight would need to move a lot faster by rail. Some of the existing IE freight operations are very slow.

It'd be nice to see more freight moving by rail, but alas, I don't think it's likely to happen in the near future.

btw: what's to become of the 201 fleet when the new intercity DMUs arrive?!

It seems that we'll have a lot of surplus 201s around if there's no freight to haul.

and if the CDE moves to new powercars, that'll just leave the enterprise!

[Derek Wheeler]

Mr. Casterton's letter is irrelevent in the scheme of promoting railfreight in Ireland. He is not a resident or tax payer in this country. His opinion is worthless.

At the outset of P11, we requested help from people in relation to Rail freight as our accumalated knowledge was prodominantly based in the passenger area. Mr. Casterton(turbotim) and his associates at Irish Railway News were found "wanting" due to their own "complexes" in relation to P11 and its audacity to actually criticise Irish Rail and/or the WRC amongst other things. Had they reacted differently, then maybe P11 (with their help) could have made a realistic contribution to highlighting railfreight possibilities online and in the media. P11 now operates solely in the passenger sphere as our tag line suggests...National Rail passengers Organisation. However this does not preclude anyone from discussing railfreight on the board.

Furthermore, Mr. Casterton, deliberately refuses to post articles from the local media in Ireland, that feature P11, on the IRN website. While some readers may not see the need or relevence for me saying this, I will conclude by stating, that his opinion and urge to write to an "Irish" newspaper, is counter productive to the rail freight question as it is seen by many as an attempt to influence action, purely on the basis of enthuasiasts whims.

Mr. Casterton has absolutely no right to debate the issue of railfreight in The Republic of Ireland. His agenda should be questioned as he had the chance to offer "knowledge" to a "local" organisation and refused to take it up.

His "letter" is nothing more than a pathetic "plea" from the safety net of a computer and not someone who sees the network on a daily basis.

[colmoc]

I know you guys have alot on your plate just dealing with the passenger side of things but is it possible to have a rail freight group within (or associated with) P11 in the same way that NRG or Meath on track are affiliated to P11.

Would there be many people in P11 interested, willing and with the knowledge to just outline the possabilities etc of rail freight in ireland at the present?
I dont really have any knowledge of this area but would love to see a revival in rail freight as alot of you would too.

I guess what I'm asking is what can we do as a group for rail freight?

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by colmoc

I guess what I'm asking is what can we do as a group for rail freight?

Platform 11 have no interest in lobbying for rail frieght. If you wanted to start a group lobbying for frieght we would deal with you (something like MoT) but we (the committee) have enough going on without doing what we consider flogging a dead horse.

If you are intested in starting a group and would like some help send Derek a mail about it.

[colmoc]

ok
thanks for the feedback guys
Kinda got the impression from IRN alright that they mostly dont care about service but just prefer to take pictures.

[ccos]

If you think the people on IRN don't like 201's here's what they've got to say about railcars

Basically there is no future for loco hauled trains, no thanks to our imported management

Doesn'nt matter that thousands travel on them daily not knowing or caring about whats up front (or not)

Kinda got the impression from IRN alright that they mostly dodnt care about service but just prefer to take pictures.

You're spot on there Colmoc.
They just want freight for photos not for any commercial or economic reason even empty boxes or wagons will do as long as theres a loco (not 201) pulling it around for no good reason.

[TomB]

Originally Posted by colmoc

they mostly dodnt care about service but just prefer to take pictures.

Ah yes but what beautiful, powerful, glorious photos...you can almost feel the throbbing...
(sorry nearly got carried away there. You know what I'm like about locomotive-hauled freight trains.)

[Thomas J Stamp]

Another point, but Derek is too diplomatic to point it out (!) is that a lot of what is presented as concern for railfrieght is actually fear of trainspotters becoming extinct due to the withdrawal of specific types of locomotives and freight wagons. If you dont belive me, look at IRN, you'll see it for yourselves.

You will also notice the rightous indignation expressed at the residents of North Wall and Sligo hotel owners who are a bit miffed with ancient trains running all night outside their doors all night because they are so clapped out that if they are switched off they may never get restarted. Rather helpfully it is pointed out that steam trains were just as noisy. So thats all right then.

As for the 201's MrX, believe me when I state that in the eyes of IRN they are the spawn of Satan himself and if they were pulling every freight train in the country our mates would from what I've seen of them lose all interest in freight.

That said, IE's freight policy is hard to fathom. One the one hand you hear grandiouse plans for a major container yard near the M50/Park West area then you dont then you find that CIE sells land which is vital for freight in the port areas.

As Derek said above we dont do freight as we dont have the expertise due in no small way to the history posted above.

[Mark Gleeson]

The problem is simple IE are by the ministers requirements required to run a profitable freight business

You don't want to take on the road haulage representitives, imagine their reaction if IE was given large grants to get freight moving.

For reference CIE has not sold a single acre in Spencer Dock Dublin, they still own the 41 acres and still have a dockside container yard in Dublin, same applies in Cork

From what I can see the IRN boys just want to take photos, they won't be happy if the trains are plain, hopefully by 2008 they will be extinct