Latest position on the interconnector

[Ronald Binge]

What causes this fudging and binning of projects is simply that farmers, estate agents and those who make money out of road construction have the ear of the Permanent Government.

It is a lot easier to run with five year lead time projects like motorway building that make money for the people mentioned above, than it is to push through any rail project. Rail projects justify themselves when spatial planning concentrates on high density, urban development for an expanding population.

The dirty secret is that any rural Irish town could be redeveloped for an expanding population but it doesn't suit Official Ireland to plan ahead for a population of ten million plus and the sustainable economy that would by necessity result from that.

It is a lot easier to run the place with a periodically shrinking population through death and emigration, because those who have the ear of the Civil Service and most politicians are comfortable enough with things as they are. Hence rural sprawl and urban congestion. Sure its part of what we are

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by Ronald Binge

It is a lot easier to run the place with a periodically shrinking population through death and emigration, because those who have the ear of the Civil Service and most politicians are comfortable enough with things as they are. Hence rural sprawl and urban congestion. Sure its part of what we are

While I concur with a lot of what you are saying, the reality is that there are 50% more people in the Republic now compared to 1970. Despite the recession, the population has continued to grow.

[James Howard]

Does the PPT have enough headroom for electrification? From this image it would not appear so.



If it were possible to electrify the PPT, then possibly combined with a major re-organisation of Connolly it might be possible to have it operate as an interconnector. Given the amount of yard space in Connolly, would it not be a relatively simple matter to add a couple of platforms that could be dedicated towards terminating northern or Maynooth line services? This would enable DART frequency to be increased to the point where people wouldn't mind changing trains.

By relatively simple I mean relative to the expense of digging out a tunnel right through the city centre.

[Mark Gleeson]

Tunnel yes, bridge at Conyngham Rd no

Routing everything to Connolly would be a nightmare as you then would have 4 inbound routes (Maynooth/Kildare/Drogheda/DART) and only one outbound

The DART underground provided separation to avoid conflicts and paired off the routes

[James Howard]

I'd rather see DART underground built but given that this is unlikely to start for at least 10 years, it would be a good idea to start looking at alternative options in the meantime.

For example, a major issue with public transport in Dublin is the lack of fare integration. With Luas from Broombridge, that opens up a lot of options but only if there is proper fare integration. It should not really cost a passenger any more to transfer onto Luas to get to O'Connell street than it costs to stay on the train to Connolly as it is the same distance. Proper fare integration would cost nothing and would make the entire system a lot more useful. But now they'll be adding yet another brand and operator to the mix.

But give it another couple of weeks and they'll give up on Metro north and bring back DART underground.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Tunnel yes, bridge at Conyngham Rd no

Routing everything to Connolly would be a nightmare as you then would have 4 inbound routes (Maynooth/Kildare/Drogheda/DART) and only one outbound

The DART underground provided separation to avoid conflicts and paired off the routes

The DART Underground/DART Expansion proposals ignore the fact that the northern line is already congested and proposes a service frequency which would be challenging to achieve on a tramway let alone a double track, mixed traffic, heavy rail route. The business case also appears to assume crush loading on trains running at 3½ minute intervals. This is only possible if every train either stops at every station or follows a signal section behind a train stopping at every station. Hence journey times from stations north of Malahide will be extended, the worse affected being Drogheda and Dundalk commuters as well as Enterprise users who will face an extension of up to 30 minutes in journey time.

Further many, if not most, of existing northern line users will be forced to make at least one change to reach their destination thus further adding to journey times and creating another dis-incentive to usage.
The effect of miserably slow journey times can be seen at south eastern line stations south of Greystones where usage has declined significantly, particularly since the introduction of the half-hourly DART services to Greystones. Last Monday after the morning peak there were no more than twenty cars in the large car park at Arklow, a good indication of light usage and probably a good predictor of future usage at outer suburban stations beyond Malahide.

As for the mooted spur from Clongriffin to Dublin Airport this makes little sense in the context of congested infrastructure as in the absence of express or semi-fast services trains would not be competitive with buses running via the port tunnel and hence be likely to attract only minimal patronage.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

The effect of miserably slow journey times can be seen at south eastern line stations south of Greystones where usage has declined significantly, particularly since the introduction of the half-hourly DART services to Greystones. Last Monday after the morning peak there were no more than twenty cars in the large car park at Arklow, a good indication of light usage and probably a good predictor of future usage at outer suburban stations beyond Malahide.

Wexford bus have probably capitalised on the infrequent services and long journey times - it would be interesting to do a survey amongst their passengers to understand the main reason why they use the bus rather than the train.

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

As for the mooted spur from Clongriffin to Dublin Airport this makes little sense in the context of congested infrastructure as in the absence of express or semi-fast services trains would not be competitive with buses running via the port tunnel and hence be likely to attract only minimal patronage.

It takes 15-20mins on the 747 from Custom House to the Airport, even at peak times. Metro North, with all its intermediate stops, will take longer than that. It'll be great if you happen to live along the line, though.

As an occasional user of the private bus company that shuttles between southside Dart stations and the airport, I'd be happy to switch to the train if there was one available. I imagine the journey time would be pretty much the same. However, I might revise that if the train dropped you a long way from the terminals, as buses do currently enjoy a big advantage in being able to drop you off right outside the terminal buildings.

[Inniskeen]

As I understand the proposal for DART to Dublin Airport, the Airport station would be some distance from the terminal buildings.

While Metro North would probably be no quicker than DART, the airport is only one stop whereas for DART the spur will depend almost exclusively on airport traffic.

Given the extraordinary time scale for the delivery of Metro North and the deferral of DART Underground there would appear to be plenty of time to review both projects together and perhaps consider a DART (or Metro) from Hazelhatch via Heuston, St Stephen's Green to Dublin Airport, Swords and Donabate. Solves the Heuston problem, relieves the northern line and leaves capacity at Grand Canal Dock for Maynooth and northern line services.