Sail & Rail

[Traincustomer]

Interestingly the Dutchflyer Rail & Sail service (via Stena Line’s Harwich to Hook of Holland route) saw a 7% increase in usage for the first half of this year with the period from April to June seeing 11% growth.

The strong points of this route are, inter alia, the integrated rail-sea terminals at both Harwich International and Hook of Holland. Also the North Sea crossing time is much longer than any Irish Sea passage and as such closely matches the time needed for a normal sleep (though a daytime journey option is also available).

When I travelled I bought my NS (Netherlands railway) ticket from my origin station in the Netherlands and its cost was refunded to me by Stena Line at check-in at the Hook of Holland. Got a good night’s sleep and reached Liverpool Street with sufficient time to get a bus (route 205) to Euston in time for the 09.10 (Virgin) train to Holyhead.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

Also the North Sea crossing time is much longer than any Irish Sea passage and as such closely matches the time needed for a normal sleep (though a daytime journey option is also available).

Nothing seems to have come of the possible changes to Stena's Fishguard and Holyhead overnight sailings cited earlier in the year to make them closer to a normal sleep pattern.

[James Howard]

I often wondered how they came up with the ferry timetables. It is a mark of supreme idiocy that both Stena Line and Irish Ferries have departures around 8AM that require you to battle Dublin rush-hour traffic and there is also a Stena ferry that dumps you in Dublin in the middle of the evening rush-hour.

These times also severely restrict the options for rail passengers connecting with the ferries as there are few options to get to Dublin in time for 8AM.

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by James Howard

I often wondered how they came up with the ferry timetables. It is a mark of supreme idiocy that both Stena Line and Irish Ferries have departures around 8AM that require you to battle Dublin rush-hour traffic and there is also a Stena ferry that dumps you in Dublin in the middle of the evening rush-hour.

These times also severely restrict the options for rail passengers connecting with the ferries as there are few options to get to Dublin in time for 8AM.

I suspect a large part of it is the scheduling of port staff. Change can't be introduced 'just like that'.

[Mark Gleeson]

It is a game of follow the leader

If Stena changed its timetable Irish Ferries would follow

The schedule currently seems to reflect the time to drive from London leaving after 6pm to reach Dublin for 7am, with the opposite in reverse

[James Howard]

I've always put it down to it being set up to suit the truck drivers.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by James Howard

I've always put it down to it being set up to suit the truck drivers.

To be fair, isn't that their most reliable year round custom?

[Traincustomer]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Nothing seems to have come of the possible changes to Stena's Fishguard and Holyhead overnight sailings cited earlier in the year to make them closer to a normal sleep pattern.

Haven't come across anything. Would hope that if something is being planned that there would be a reasonable lead-in to it to enable co-ordination with the rail service. Integration of trains at Fishguard Harbour with the Rosslare ferry is prescribed in the rail franchise. Not sure if it's prescribed for Holyhead but in view of the much more frequent train service (24 trains depart Holyhead daily Mondays to Fridays) trains and ships will by default coincide reasonably well.

The two areas that could be improved on in terms of co-ordination/timetabling at Holyhead are:

(i) the night-time situation ex Ireland (as previously discussed).

(ii) an improved level of connectivity with the through trains to Euston e.g. great that the 09.10 ex Euston connects with the 13.50 & 14.10 sailings to Dublin but no through train to London out of the 11.30 and 11.45 ferry arrivals at Holyhead except at weekends. (I didn't mention the 10.45 Jonathan Swift fast ferry arrival as in heavy weather it would be cancelled and passengers transferred to the Ulysses arriving at 11.30). One daytime through London - Holyhead train connecting with the conventional sailings to/from Dublin seems a very reasonable minimum provision.

On the issue of ferry sailing times my personal opinion is that they are largely historic. For example today's sailing times from Dublin Port (08.05, 08.20, 08.45, 20.55 & 21.15) closely mirror the bygone days of the St. Columba sailing from Dún Laoghaire at 08.45 and 20.45.

Similarly for the last few decades or longer a ship has sailed from Rosslare between around 21.00 and 22.00hrs and plied the route to Fishguard.

On a quick aside hopefully the route from Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead will remain. Personally think a smaller fast ferry doing two round trips in the summer and one round trip off season might be better. Pity that fuel costs have affected things on this route to such an extent.

In case anyone is interested there's a consultation underway in Wales where users' views of integrated transport are being sought. Views must be submitted on this Friday at the latest. Details here:
http://wales.gov.uk/topics/transport/public/ptuc/questionnaire/;jsessionid=SmTwQ9nFXyBJfnG2pJMPSf76W9rbBcQB9xJP9h Yjv1RDQprlpKzT!1219044931?lang=en

[Thomas J Stamp]

is it something to do with tides?

[Mark Gleeson]

Not since they moved the ferries out to the outer harbour in Holyhead 15+ years ago

[Traincustomer]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

is it something to do with tides?

If I remember rightly the B & I Line service from Liverpool to Dublin used to be particularly prone to tidal restrictions but think they were on the Liverpool side.

[Sealink]

Originally Posted by Traincustomer

Interestingly the Dutchflyer Rail & Sail service (via Stena Line’s Harwich to Hook of Holland route) saw a 7% increase in usage for the first half of this year with the period from April to June seeing 11% growth.

Unlike other rail and sail offers, this one is actively promoted. I wonder if it's because it is very well integrated as this video shows? And it's a good revenue stream for Greater Anglia Trains, compared to diluting revenue on the other routes? (Rail and Sail fares to Ireland are usually lower than most fares to the departing port). This isn't the case with the Harwich route.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxEgAcnOywY


I think what has happened with Rail and Sail to Ireland is that the temporary loss of foot passengers thanks to rise of low cost airlines made the ferry companies amend their schedules to were the business was: cars and freight. In the process, they destroyed the connectivity that was there. Yet, there is a definitely an untapped market for people growing weary of airline nickle and diming.

Just some random, unchecked thoughts!

[Traincustomer]

Originally Posted by Sealink

Unlike other rail and sail offers, this one is actively promoted. I wonder if it's because it is very well integrated as this video shows? And it's a good revenue stream for Greater Anglia Trains, compared to diluting revenue on the other routes? (Rail and Sail fares to Ireland are usually lower than most fares to the departing port). This isn't the case with the Harwich route.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxEgAcnOywY


I think what has happened with Rail and Sail to Ireland is that the temporary loss of foot passengers thanks to rise of low cost airlines made the ferry companies amend their schedules to were the business was: cars and freight. In the process, they destroyed the connectivity that was there. Yet, there is a definitely an untapped market for people growing weary of airline nickle and diming.

Just some random, unchecked thoughts!

I think the integrated rail/sea terminals on the London-Netherlands route make a big difference along with the fact the crossing time neatly fits a normal sleep. Shipboard facilities are just as good on the Irish Sea but the shorter crossing time results in overnight journeys being fragmented.

[Traincustomer]

The Stena Explorer (HSS) will operate from Dún Laoghaire to Holyhead this Christmas and New Year.

Having spent several minutes going through the booking engine on the Stena Line website the sailing schedule is 10.30 ex Holyhead and 13.30 ex Dún Laoghaire with a passage time of 1 hour 59 minutes.

Dates seem to be Thurs 20th to Sun 23rd inclusive.
Thurs 27th to Sun 30th inclusive and Weds 2nd Jan 2013 to Sat 5th Jan 2013 inclusive.

[Traincustomer]

On December 22nd, 23rd, 27th and January 2nd and 3rd the Isle of Inishmore (conventional vessel) will operate:

* a 13.00hrs Dublin to Holyhead sailing arriving Holyhead 16.40 - the booking engine currently shows that SailRail bookings using this sailing are possible on the 22nd and 23rd December (but for other dates there is insufficient space).

* a 18.30 Holyhead to Dublin sailing arriving Dublin 22.00 (booking engine currently shows SailRail bookings possible for 2nd & 3rd January)

[Sealink]

Stena HSS returning to Dun Loaghaire next summer!

Was it not their intention to remove these vessels from traffic?
Good to see them back, even after 15 odd years they still look great.

[Mark Gleeson]

They have added a further 15 minutes on the journey time, they might be able to cross now with only 2 of the 4 turbines running

2:15 is the scheduled time, 99 minutes was the original time and 90 minute was possible on a good day back then

Fuel costs, plus charges in Dun Laoghaire port are the problems

[ThomasJ]

HSS is running out of dun laoghaire as of tuesday!

It is running as cover for one of the ships that has been taken out of service for refurbishment following a docking incident in Holyhead.

It sails from dun laoghaire at 15.05