Leo Varadkar vs David McGuinness on Dublin's transport proposals - who is correct?

[James Howard]

Walking is cheap, but the Dublin bikes system is a far more effective means of getting around the city centre and hopefully soon not just the centre. A bike-rental scheme would probably work even better in Cork, Galway and Limerick given how much smaller these cities are. This conversation is also entirely moot as it is making national headlines that they have found 36 million euro down the back of the sofa to pay for redundancies.

The point I was trying to make is that we are past the era of mega-projects and given Irish Rail's record of spending vast amounts of money and ending up with little or nothing in service improvements to show for it, it is time to think of smaller projects that achieve a good proportion of the same objectives.

In my opinion, it is a waste of money to be investing in building further motorways, but it is not much less wasteful to be investing billions in a tunnel to nowhere (particularly when a similar tunnel AND a tram line largely achieve the same purpose already) and/or billions more in a single rail-line that makes the tunnel somewhat useful.

The public transport system in Dublin is a shambles and is getting worse. My personal experience of Dublin Bus recently has been limited to around City West and while the Luas offers a frequent but slow service if you are within walking distance of the line, the bus-service is a disaster and has gotten drastically worse over the last couple of years.

The same is repeated all around the city. If you are to make public transport a viable option for the vast majority of Dublin's population, what money there is needs to be spent on improving the bus network and possible on some tram lines. Blowing the whole lot on a single line to one area of the city is simply not fair and this is what I was alluding to when I made the comment about taxes and their distribution.

Sure it would be nice and shiny to have a rail tunnel under the city and we could all have some fun on the underground but in terms of practical benefits, it would achieve a lot more to spend the money in a way that helps the population of the entire city.

[Thomas J Stamp]

what you say is true of Metro North (or indeed west) but isnt as true as Dart Underground, because it will facilitate high frequency (well, you know) EMU trains on the Commuter lines from Kildare and Louth, with interchanges to both Luas lines in high usage and handy areas. Thats far form the limited impact of a stand alone metro line. Throw in the few million to re-jig Glasneven and North Wall junctions to allow intercity trains use the PPP and Connolly/Docklands/go right to Belfast and you suddenly have a flexible dynamic system which we most certainly do not have now.

The €36 million is not going on redundancies.

Dublin Bikes is great, but it cant be used at terminal railway stations ( i am led to belive) because all the bikes will be taken in the morning rush hour and the other ranks wouldnt have capacity to accept them.

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

what you say is true of Metro North (or indeed west) but isnt as true as Dart Underground, because it will facilitate high frequency (well, you know) EMU trains on the Commuter lines from Kildare and Louth, with interchanges to both Luas lines in high usage and handy areas. Thats far form the limited impact of a stand alone metro line. Throw in the few million to re-jig Glasneven and North Wall junctions to allow intercity trains use the PPP and Connolly/Docklands/go right to Belfast and you suddenly have a flexible dynamic system which we most certainly do not have now.

The €36 million is not going on redundancies.

Dublin Bikes is great, but it cant be used at terminal railway stations ( i am led to belive) because all the bikes will be taken in the morning rush hour and the other ranks wouldnt have capacity to accept them.

I am afraid that in the absence of additional physical track capacity north of Connolly, DART interconnector and DART to the airport is a nonsense as it is simply not possible to provide services that will be competive with alternative bus services or sufficiently attractive to entice people to leave their cars at home.

In the absence of additional tracks north of Connolly it might be better to dedicate the existing lines to express DART to the airport, fast outer-suburban commuter services and cross-border trains. The area between Clontarf Road and Howth Junction (and potentially the Howth branch) would be better served by a separate high frequency Luas service directly accessible from the city centre and via interchanges at Clontarf Road and Howth Junction.

[James Howard]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

In the absence of additional tracks north of Connolly it might be better to dedicate the existing lines to express DART to the airport, fast outer-suburban commuter services and cross-border trains. The area between Clontarf Road and Howth Junction (and potentially the Howth branch) would be better served by a separate high frequency Luas service directly accessible from the city centre and via interchanges at Clontarf Road and Howth Junction.

This is the sort of solution that would make sense in our present financial circumstances. Put in a relatively cheap tram line to serve the shorter journey and dedicate the existing heavy rail system to longer-distance travel.

The DART interconnecter will start making sense when the 29Ks are approaching the end of their operational lifespan which will then make it economically sensible to look at electrifying the inner suburban lines and replacing the 29Ks with EMUs. But if they were to build it now, Irish Rail would suddenly have a heap of 29Ks with no purpose.

[dowlingm]

or convert the Howth Branch to a tramway as the ultimate extension of said "coast LUAS"?