Sail & Rail

[Eddie]

Interestingly, I have recently completed a survey on behalf on Stena that suggests, if popular enough, they might be looking at tweaking their timetables from Rosslare to Fishguard to either:

Rosslare to Fishguard: 8.30am / 7pm; Fishguard to Rosslare: 1.45pm / midnight (with option to stay in cabin for 6 hrs)

or

Rosslare to Fishguard: 2.30am (option to stay in cabin for 6 hrs) / 4pm; Fishguard to Rosslare: 10.45am / 9pm.

I suspect they are looking at all routes; would be interesting to hear if anyone else gets the survey and has an insight into the Dublin / Dun Laoghaire options.

[Mark Gleeson]

I can confirm similar proposals for Dublin Holyhead are under investigation by Stena Line management

[Eddie]

It's a shame they didn't ask my opinion about constructing an ideal timetable from Dun Laoghaire to Holyhead which is potentially of more use to me as I would have said:

Dun Laoghaire to Holyhead: sometime between 11.10am and 12.30pm
Holyhead to Dun Laoghaire: sometime between 2pm and 5pm.

Of course, they will never do this as this would mean basing the ferry in Dun Laoghaire rather than Holyhead.

With regard to the Dublin port to Holyhead service, I like the idea of pulling the morning departure times forward a little to say 7.30am from Dublin (which I think they do occasionally when there are particular football matches taking place), and the option of a 6 hour overnight sailing from Holyhead in a cabin could be very appealing. However, a 7pm rather than a 9pm departure from Dublin to Holyhead would extend even further the already long time from arrival into Holyhead and the next train departure though.

[Mark Gleeson]

There is a chance Stena wont operate out of Dun Laoghaire in 2013

Almost certainly this last HSS season. The HSC Stena Explorer is the oldest ship on the Holyhead route!

[Traincustomer]

Very interesting that this practice of staying onboard which was common decades ago on Irish Sea services could make a comeback.

While acknowledging such changes will benefit all market segments (not just rail passengers) a fairly long lead in to any significant change is desirable on both practical and revenue optimisation grounds so that train services can be adjusted to best match the new arrangements.

The first option for Rosslare to Fishguard seems the best i.e. ex Rosslare 8.30am / 7pm; ex Fishguard 1.45pm and midnight (with the option to stay in cabin for 6 hrs).

Arrive refreshed!

Even with a full six hours in a cabin the second option and its proposed 02.30 sailing ex Rosslare is not necessarily an appealing sailing time for even the seasoned trucker, let alone the motorist or foot passenger. Under this proposed timetable it would be impossible for embarkation to commence before 01.15 at very best.

What I like about Rosslare at present is that the overnight rail sea and rail journey works in that it is continuous with no significant hanging around but that only suits if heading for South Wales.

Regarding Dublin if a 7pm sailing to Holyhead wasn’t met the far side by a train it would probably totally displace the rail-based foot passengers to Bus Éireann/Eurolines. Incidentally the overnight route 871 (London) coach enjoys very strong patronage and is often full/near full. Its route 880 (Leeds) counterpart often is around half full give or take but this can fluctuate. From time to time when heading to visit people in NW England I Sailrail if I can go daytime but at night always take the coach. There is no contest – at 4.25am I can either be starting to grab a few hours rest after already arriving whereas by rail the train would just be pulling out of Holyhead. Admittedly Eurolines only serves certain key cities and towns so rail is the only mode for many locations.

Advancing the morning conventional sailings slightly would be ok – but please leave the Irish Ferries Jonathan Swift at 08.45 – not being based in Dublin it’s impossible to reach Dublin by public transport in time for either the Stena Line or Irish Ferries conventional sailings and anytime I take the Swift it’s always a ‘mad dash’ invariably involving a taxi from the city centre.

It will be sad to see the Stena Explorer cease – hard to believe this month marks sixteen years since her entry into service on the route. Hypothetically would an alternative like the Stena Nordica serving Dún Laoghaire on one of her daily round trips be possible? (using the berth on the south side of St. Michael’s Pier/Ferry Terminal which the Stena Express/Lynx III served).

Final items of interest are in the recently released station usage figures for 2010-2011.

Holyhead = 241, 210 (up from 185,506 in 2009-2010)

Fishguard Harbour = 30,832 (up from 23,746 in 2009-2010)

(Reason – extra foot passengers in wake of Icelandic volcano).

The figures for Fishguard Harbour are for the period before the additional local trains were introduced last September when the only trains were the boat trains which understandably saw residual local usage due to the times they ran so 90 – 95% if not virtually all of the Fishguard figure pertains to foot passengers to/from Rosslare.

In contrast Holyhead’s train service is used by the local population so while the bulk of the additional usage is likely foot passengers to/from ferries there may also have been an increase in usage of the rail service by local people.

[Mark Gleeson]

Stena Nordica is too small to carry foot passengers, only takes 405 barely enough for drivers and its too big to fit in Dun Laoghaire.

Nordica is likely to be replaced also

[zag]

I took Sail & Rail back from London during the week in an attempt to avoid some of the chaos involved in taking a flight these days. I'm unlikely to repeat the experiment in a hurry. Having the option of an extended cabin stay would help though.

The train journey was fine, direct with Virgin from Euston. However, there was a major Ryanair-like scrum in Euston which was a pity. There was a train to Liverpool and my train to Holyhead within 10 minutes of each other. Both were relatively late to board and both were packed. Despite having ~20 platforms to board, they managed to get both trains to board from adjacent platforms. The scrum was unbelievable. By way of contrast, other trains which had departed earlier just had a normal looking queue to board.

The trip itself was uneventful, although I was a little annoyed at going backwards all the way to Holyhead. I could have sworn I had booked a forward facing seat.

Once we got to Holyhead though, the experience went rapidly downhill. The walk from the train to the terminal was badly signposted, poorly lit, indirect, and generally not very friendly to someone who didn't know the route. Then when you get to the door at the end of the platform, looking in to the terminal it's locked and there's a sign saying something like "Please use the main door". Of course, there is no arrow indicating which way to go for the main door - is it back the way we came, is it to the left, is it to the right ? We just followed people and hoped we would get there. It really is pretty poor from a user experience point of view.

The boats were both late due to the storms on Tuesday night/Wednesday morning, but despite Irish Ferries having 3 staff on who were doing nothing apparent, it was down to each passenger to keep walking up to them to ask "what's the story, how long will it be, has it even departed Dublin yet, etc . . ." It was very poor customer service. How hard is it to write up a summary on a flip chart with an update. The overhead displays just said "delayed".

The terminal was *freezing*. I know it was unusually cold on Tuesday night, but there was no heating on at all other than in the loos and I don't think too many people were going to hang out in the loos for a few hours. The only seating available was metal and as you can imagine (on a cold night) it was pretty uncomfortable.

Stena boarded without any sort of announcement. I wouldn't like to have been waiting for it and missed it.

Irish Ferries boarded a while later. Again, no announcement, nothing. I know people (those who were awake) would have noticed the rest of the people shuffling along into a queue, but an announcement wouldn't have gone amiss.

We went through into the waiting area for the bus and waited, and waited, and waited. Some genius at the top of the queue kept setting off the sliding doors to outside which resulted in major gales (no, I'm not exaggerating) blowing through the hall and freezing everyone. All this time, no communication from Irish Ferries or port staff. People had no idea if they were going to be here for 5 minutes, an hour, an indefinite period while the ferry tried to dock, etc . . .

Eventually someone arrived and we were let on to the bus. At last there was a friendly staff member (port staff I think) who explained what the story was, how long the delay was likely to be, etc . . . The bus ended up driving on to the ferry and we walked up the stairs as the pedestrian link was out of action due to the weather. I'm actually glad of that as that walk would have been huge.

On the ferry - generally fine, captain explained expected arrival time, food was available and hot and not surprisingly there was plenty of space for all the passengers.

Arrival in Dublin showed up poor service again. Foot passengers gathered around the reception area. There was no communication from staff, no marshalling, no information. It took forever for the link to be fitted and all this time a very cold breeze was blowing through the reception area, presumably because the car doors were open. I'm a fit, relatively healthy, relatively young male and I can take most conditions, but this was almost too much for me - being frozen inside the ship. I wouldn't like to think how the grannies and kids who were travelling managed - they must have been blue by the end. Again, all this time, no communication from the staff. There were reception staff nearby and all they did when asked by the various customers was say "yes, it will be here". After 10 minutes of waiting in the freezing cold people were getting pretty angry. Eventually the gates opened and we trundled off.

All in all, a very unimpressive experience. I didn't care about the delay - it meant I got home at a more reasonable time. What I objected to was the freezing cold station, the uninviting environment on arrival into Holyhead, the lack of active communication from the staff everywhere, and basically the feeling that the foot passengers were regarded as less than human - they just weren't regarded at all.

z

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Interestingly, I have recently completed a survey on behalf on Stena.

If anyone else gets this survey, you might want to be careful how you answer which ferry journeys you have undertaken in the last year. I said I'd done one return of each of the Rosslare to Fishguard and Dublin to Holyhead routes.

The survey engine then decided I should answer questions about the possible future timetabling of the Rosslare to Fishguard route, presumably because this route has a lower number of passengers to ask.

As a result, I ended up commenting on a route which I am less likely to use and I also now have a discount coupon only valid on the Rosslare to Fishguard route, which is going to be of no use to me whatsover within the timeframe of its validity, whereas a Dun Laoghaire / Dublin to Holyhead voucher might have been.

[Traincustomer]

I presume the discount coupon is personalised and non-transferable?

[Eddie]

Looks that way to me.

[Eddie]

Originally Posted by Eddie

Interestingly, I have recently completed a survey on behalf on Stena that suggests, if popular enough, they might be looking at tweaking their timetables from Rosslare to Fishguard to either:

Rosslare to Fishguard: 8.30am / 7pm; Fishguard to Rosslare: 1.45pm / midnight (with option to stay in cabin for 6 hrs)

or

Rosslare to Fishguard: 2.30am (option to stay in cabin for 6 hrs) / 4pm; Fishguard to Rosslare: 10.45am / 9pm.

I suspect they are looking at all routes; would be interesting to hear if anyone else gets the survey and has an insight into the Dublin / Dun Laoghaire options.

Has anyone heard whether there might be any changes afoot with regard to the ferry timings or did the research just confirm that the current timings are the best?