[article] Rail plans on the wrong track

[philip]

Originally Posted by Spinmeister

There is already heavy interchange of customers between Dart and Commuter services at Connolly Station and the Luas Red Line Connolly terminus, where the distance between the Dart/Commuter platforms and the Luas stop is similar to that being presented as some sort of drastic obstacle to integration at Docklands.

Connolly Station was built in the 1800's. There is an actual excuse for the distance there. The Docklands Station and Luas extension are to open within a year or two of each other on what was a brownfield site all owned by the people of Ireland under the 'care' of CIE properties.

Originally Posted by Spinmeister

The use of the Phoenix Park tunnel to Docklands for Kildare services would not add any capacity to the system, but would rather result in Kildare commuters taking longer to get to the city centre than they do currently, and prevent planned expansion in the Maynooth line and proposed Dunboyne/Pace line services.

Hold on a second? What's this fluffy nonsense? a fully grade segregated junction exists at Glasnevin. Trains from Kildare to Docklands via the PPT and Drumcondra would not interfere at all with trains from Maynooth rnning down the Midland. He's just making this stuff up.

....oh and Barry, if you're working so closely with the RPA you should really know that it stands for Railway Procurement Agency

[Mark Gleeson]

I suddenly feel the urge to write a letter to a certain newspaper....

[PaulM]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I suddenly feel the urge to write a letter to a certain newspaper....

Please do! You're better at it than me.

[Mark]

Economical with the truth..again.

integration between rail modes barely exists anywhere in the world

- I'm going to hold you to that Barry.

[Colm Donoghue]

Maybe IE havn't been aware of the system in the RER in Paris, developed in the '70s, with cross platform interchange[1]. comparing Ireland's new 350m interchanges with Le Metropolitan from 2 centuries ago while ignoring what happened 30 years ago in the same cities....

Maybe they're ignorant or maybe they're stupid or maybe they're trying to con us.

[1] Sato & Essig, Japan railway and transport review March 2000.

[Mark Gleeson]

Really wonder does Barry want to get caught out since the last few letters to the press have had gapping holes, its not as if Mr Kenny doesn't know what we know, if the 350m was undercover on a travelator sure we could forget about it, but since there is no phyiscal connection its not integrated

Rule one in PR is to keep quiet when you are ahead

[Mark Hennessy]

Originally Posted by Mark

Economical with the truth..again.

- I'm going to hold you to that Barry.

Sounds like he is posting on boards as Metrobest
Those cross platform transfers work like a dream, the RER used the Tokyo system as a model.
I dont think anyone is looking for that ( obviously ) in Drumcondra but if anyone has used Brixton tube to train in London will know what should be
built in Drumcondra at the very least as a Dart/Metro interchange.
I guess the only good thing about Barry's letter is that he didnt claim that an interchange between Maynooth line at Sherriff st and DART was the type common the world over

[Thomas J Stamp]

Ah jaysus...............

There is already heavy interchange of customers between Dart and Commuter services at Connolly Station and the Luas Red Line Connolly terminus, where the distance between the Dart/Commuter platforms and the Luas stop is similar to that being presented as some sort of drastic obstacle to integration at Docklands.

For starters 99% of that journey is within the actual Connolly Station building. So, the reality is that the journey from Connolly station to LUAS is around 10m. Ditto for Heuston to LUAS.

There is a big difference bewteen walking from Sherriff Street Station to a LUAS stop (not even a terminus stop) and what Barry says above. It is akin to the walk from Bua Aras to Connolly Station. Would Barry Kenny say that Connolly Station and Bus Aras are integrated? No.

Next:

The location of our Docklands station, opening next year, will ensure easy interchange with the extended Luas Red Line and also allows services to continue operating while the underground Dart interconnector is constructed.

There is no interchange. It is the same as getting off a 40 bus in Parnell Street and walking to the 28 bus stop in Abbey Street. Thats not integrated either. Also, this station will only have a 10 year timespan, which Barry forgets to mention. This means that then interconnector will have to open by 2018 at the latest. As the interconnector isnt due to start untill 2015 I dont think it'll be done in three years, but Im sure the more technical lads can correct me on this.

The logical conclusion from the argument that integration is not being achieved between Iarnród Éireann and Railway Procurement Authority schemes under Transport 21, due to walking distances of up to 350 metres between modes, is that The logical conclusion from the argument that integration is not being achieved between Iarnród Éireann and Railway Procurement Authority schemes under Transport 21, due to walking distances of up to 350 metres between modes, is that integration between rail modes barely exists anywhere in the world.

When you have to get off a LUAS at ground level in Stephens Green, walk into an underground station and get onto another form of Transport which starts down the road it isnt intgrated. Using that Logic the fact that you can walk 100 metres or 100 kilometers between stations means they are intgrated, ie, they are all on the surface, or just beneath, of planet Earth. Sadly, Barry is not.

There is no intgration at Botanic Road. There is no intgration proposed at Drumconrda, as the midland line trains bypass the station. This is another fine example of non-integration of services totaly and compleatly within his companies controll.

It is misleading to state "is that integration between rail modes barely exists anywhere in the world" integration on the model defended by Barry barely exists anywhere in the world. Again, there is no integration needed in the examples he is using, as they are all within the same phyical locale. EG using a travelator to go from Teminals 1 to 4 in Heathrow isnt intgrated, its the same system. On that logic Platform 1 and 8 in Heuston are fully integrated.

The use of the Phoenix Park tunnel to Docklands for Kildare services would not add any capacity to the system, but would rather result in Kildare commuters taking longer to get to the city centre than they do currently

Oh come ON!!! Not only, as has been pointed out before, is Chav totaly overburnend because some fool never thought the damned thing would be popular, what with it being between the two biggest railway stations and only bus staion in the City and even though someone knew it and hid a third line in Heston for a laugh, but i love playing the game of next tram in 2 min getting stuck for 4 min, right after 3 min was there for 5. What's happening here, of course is Barry is saying that if you shove your DMU into Platform 1, wait while no-one gets out, then move it around the houses over to the tunnell (cos that's what'll happen) and then to connolly of course it'll take forever. Why not stop it at 10? Perhaps it's not intgrated enough.

This is just so bad, its enraging. I'm sure that Barry will be there at Sherrif Street, dressed as a clown, when it opens, telling those people who have to wealk in the rain to a small LUAS stop that it's intgrated.

But maybe he'll be on holidays that week.

[Mark]

Marko get writing. That letter is a disgrace. You cant compare Dublin with London and Paris. Of course 100 year old metro systems are going to be ad hoc but we are building a new network from scratch so to speak and have no excuse not to get it right.

I wonder if the RP - Authority (Now thats funny!) will reply.