[article] Rail plans on the wrong track

[Colm Donoghue]

Yeah,
the metro stop entranc on O'Connell st should be the minimum distance possible from the Luas on Abbey st. and the luas stop on O'Connel st i.e. on O'Connell st, outside the former AIB now a pub near Quinn Insurance, outside Supermacs, and two entrances further north on O'Connell st one east, one west

The Metro stop and Interconnector entrance on St Stephen's Green should be the minimum distance possible from the existing luas stop. i.e entrance in front of either abn ambro or the RCS

Anything else is arseboxing really. Building two new rail lines without tight integration is not on. Getting the underground entrance close is a must I think. I mean people think the dart and luas are connected at connolly because you go into Connolly up a flight of stairs. people don't think the luas and sherrif st are interconnected because you will have to walk outside (in the rain and cold) but it's about the same distance from platform 7.

[craigybagel]

And as dodgy as connolly is at night its safer than walking down shefiff street. And o connell streets hardly the safest place either.How many people would want to walk down it at night to make their transfer.

[Maynooth_Line]

In a lot of cities where there are metro systems there can be a long walk underground (often helped by travelators) between two different lines at the same station. But as colmd has already mentioned because you don't have to go outside it doesn't bother anyone.

If you're changing from metro to regional rail (eg. metro to RER in Paris) they have a special entrance for people coming from the metro. That seems to be what is being talked about for Stephen's Green but it is something they should consider doing at any points of interchange between different modes of transport.

[James Shields]

In a lot of cities where there are metro systems there can be a long walk underground (often helped by travelators) between two different lines at the same station. But as colmd has already mentioned because you don't have to go outside it doesn't bother anyone.

That's all well and good if you're integrating lines that were built in the distant past, but we're building a new system, and if we design it right in the first place, we can have simple, effective integration from the start. If we design it wrong, we will spend years trying to patch it up.

At one stage we were going to have the Interconnector station on one corner of Stephen's Green and the Metro station on another, so you'd have to get the escalator to ground level, walk along one side of the Green and take the escalator back down. Fortunately some sense has been seen, and an integrated Stephen's Green station is now on the drawing board.

But the broader message hasn't sunk in yet. Anywhere that a new line crosses an existing one, we must have a single, well designed and integrated station. It's not an add-on or a nice-to-have, it's vital to the development of the city. If it's not possible at the easiest crossing point, move the new line until you find a workable crossing point. This is why most of P11 now seem to favour a Metro going via Drumcondra.

[philip]

Even when lines were both built years apart they can manage to integrate them well in other countries. I think a great comparison with Drumcondra would be here at Partick in Glasgow. I've used it dozens of times and it's so handy to take a bus just as far as the station then take either the Underground or the Glasgow version of DART (Glasgow has the best suburban rail network in the UK outside London) to either Buchanan St or Glasgow Central (undergrond heavy rail station). Partick has one ticket office for both the Underground and for 'DART', despite the 'DART' being run by FirstScotRail and the Underground being run by Strathclyde Passenger Transport (the DTO with balls!!) themselves.

[Navan Junction]

Madam, - We welcome Frank McDonald's continued support for the underground DART interconnector (The Irish Times, May 26th). As well as dramatically improving the frequency and capacity on all Greater Dublin area rail lines, this will fully integrate all modes - Dart, Commuter, Intercity, Luas and Metro - into a cohesive network.

However, we would not agree that a "freestanding approach" is being taken to the various investment schemes, "hindering" integration.

The logical conclusion from the argument that integration is not being achieved between Iarnród Éireann and Railway Procurement Authority schemes under Transport 21, due to walking distances of up to 350 metres between modes, is that integration between rail modes barely exists anywhere in the world.

Such interchange distances - and indeed much longer distances in many cases - are extremely common internationally in systems which all observers would readily accept are integrated, such as London Underground, Paris Metro, and their linkages with wider commuter and inter-city rail travel. The high frequency and capacity of these systems ensures that usage is maximisedand that modest transfer distances do not discourage commuters from using public transport.

There is already heavy interchange of customers between Dart and Commuter services at Connolly Station and the Luas Red Line Connolly terminus, where the distance between the Dart/Commuter platforms and the Luas stop is similar to that being presented as some sort of drastic obstacle to integration at Docklands.

The location of our Docklands station, opening next year, will ensure easy interchange with the extended Luas Red Line and also allows services to continue operating while the underground Dart interconnector is constructed. The use of the Phoenix Park tunnel to Docklands for Kildare services would not add any capacity to the system, but would rather result in Kildare commuters taking longer to get to the city centre than they do currently, and prevent planned expansion in the Maynooth line and proposed Dunboyne/Pace line services.

Finally, we are working closely with the RPA to ensure our services integrate closely at all interchange points on the network being funded by Transport 21, including interchanges between the Maynooth commuter line and Metro North and Metro West and between the underground Dart interconnector and the Metro, Luas Red and Luas Green Lines. - Yours, etc,

BARRY KENNY, Manager, Corporate Communications, Iarnród Éireann, Connolly Station, Dublin 1.

[philip]

Originally Posted by Spinmeister

There is already heavy interchange of customers between Dart and Commuter services at Connolly Station and the Luas Red Line Connolly terminus, where the distance between the Dart/Commuter platforms and the Luas stop is similar to that being presented as some sort of drastic obstacle to integration at Docklands.

Connolly Station was built in the 1800's. There is an actual excuse for the distance there. The Docklands Station and Luas extension are to open within a year or two of each other on what was a brownfield site all owned by the people of Ireland under the 'care' of CIE properties.

Originally Posted by Spinmeister

The use of the Phoenix Park tunnel to Docklands for Kildare services would not add any capacity to the system, but would rather result in Kildare commuters taking longer to get to the city centre than they do currently, and prevent planned expansion in the Maynooth line and proposed Dunboyne/Pace line services.

Hold on a second? What's this fluffy nonsense? a fully grade segregated junction exists at Glasnevin. Trains from Kildare to Docklands via the PPT and Drumcondra would not interfere at all with trains from Maynooth rnning down the Midland. He's just making this stuff up.

....oh and Barry, if you're working so closely with the RPA you should really know that it stands for Railway Procurement Agency

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Spinmeister

The use of the Phoenix Park tunnel to Docklands for Kildare services would not add any capacity to the system, but would rather result in Kildare commuters taking longer to get to the city centre than they do currently, and prevent planned expansion in the Maynooth line and proposed Dunboyne/Pace line services.

Hmm

Joe Meagher while Chief Executive of Iarnród Éireann went on record in front of the joint oireacthas committee on Feb 25th 2004

We certainly intend to use the Phoenix Park tunnel in the short term to bring trains from the Kildare-Newbridge area into Spencer Dock because there is a demand for that.

Oh yeah the station can take up to 10 trains per hour, track capacity on the Maynooth line is 8tph currently and 4tph will run to Connolly, I think the math is fairly simple to prove Mr Kenny is talking bull

I know quite a few people in Kildare/Newbridge who work in the IFSC (not to mention the south city Grand Canal Dock etc), and the Park Tunnel would be faster. Its 5 minutes from platform to Luas stop in Heuston, wait 3 minutes, its too full, wait another 4, get moving 12 minutes later Connolly, thats 24 minutes, its another 7 minutes on foot to Mayor Street, 31 minutes total, by train 15 minutes plus 5 walk. You could of course get out at Drumcondra its only 15 minutes to O'Connell Street

And I see no reason why the line speed through Cabra couldn't be lifted to 70mph its dead straight for about 1.8km with approaches at 30 mph no hassle accelerate to 70 cruise and brake in that distance that would chop lumps out of the time