Connolly Side Services - Draft Timetable

[Paddyphillips]

The delay is caused mainly when it leaves Connolly late and it is stuck behind a DART and cannot get up to speed getting rid of the Donabate stop will not resolve the problem as the time that the new timetable has for Rush and Lusk is the same as present

[KSW]

Moving the 7.33 Connolly-Rosslare back to 9.40 makes more sense to cater for the leisure passengers,I know myself as I left Dublin on the 9.30 bus service a few times that piece of news is great.

Coming from Gorey in the morning to Dublin,I assume the 05.55 is still operating,then you have 06.45,08.25,14.01,19.04 if i'm reading the online draft correctly. To me there still appears to be a huge gap between 8.25 to 4.01 and 19.04 ultimately i would also like a train at 11am and 16.30 to Dublin.

Coming from Dublin to Gorey there is 09.40 , 13.36, 16.37, 17.36 and 18.38 even in the southbound direction I would like to see a train at 11.30 and 15.30 If I had the chance to change the timetable I would have a 9.30Rosslare,12.30Rosslare,15.00Rosslare,16.30Ross lare,17.30Gorey and 19.00Rosslare But that's just me

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by KSW

Moving the 7.33 Connolly-Rosslare back to 9.40 makes more sense to cater for the leisure passengers,I know myself as I left Dublin on the 9.30 bus service a few times that piece of news is great.

Coming from Gorey in the morning to Dublin,I assume the 05.55 is still operating,then you have 06.45,08.25,14.01,19.04 if i'm reading the online draft correctly. To me there still appears to be a huge gap between 8.25 to 4.01 and 19.04 ultimately i would also like a train at 11am and 16.30 to Dublin.

Coming from Dublin to Gorey there is 09.40 , 13.36, 16.37, 17.36 and 18.38 even in the southbound direction I would like to see a train at 11.30 and 15.30 If I had the chance to change the timetable I would have a 9.30Rosslare,12.30Rosslare,15.00Rosslare,16.30Ross lare,17.30Gorey and 19.00Rosslare But that's just me

Without entering too deeply into the discussion as to the number and distribution of trains on the Wexford/Rosslare line (An hourly service is probably practical and desireable with a last train at say 2040), one would have to ask why the timetable draft has five trains, of which only two depart at the same time past the hour, but nonethess all within a few minutes of the same number of minutes past the hour. Weird ! Why not 0940, 1340, 1640, 1740 and 1840.

[KSW]

Originally Posted by Inniskeen

Without entering too deeply into the discussion as to the number and distribution of trains on the Wexford/Rosslare line (An hourly service is probably practical and desireable with a last train at say 2040), one would have to ask why the timetable draft has five trains, of which only two depart at the same time past the hour, but nonethess all within a few minutes of the same number of minutes past the hour. Weird ! Why not 0940, 1340, 1640, 1740 and 1840.

I agree with you, having a time on a timetale that says 16.38 17.38 and 18.38 be alot better with an extra 2mins added to make it 16.40 17.40 and 18.40 plus it will give a DART train that little 2minutes to travel extra to the next station. The 16.38 now extends to rosslare,the 17.38 goes to wexford.I think turning the 18.38 into the last 19.30 to rosslare.plus giving an 2hour gap from the 17.38 again it makes sense to me

[JayneM]

I have to say as a Donabate communter I am raging about the removal of the 18.40, a lot of people use it and if it is taken off it will mean when I get out of work at 6 - 6.15, depending on how quickly I get a Luas, by the time I get to Connolly I will have to wait an hour for the next train.

As a former Belfast line commuter I can understand that Irish Rail want to ease delays on the Enterprise, but removing a service verus shaving a few minutes off an already highly inefficient service doesn't seem like a fair trade off to me.

[Alan French]

Copy of my submission to the timetable review: DART.

The peak hour frequency on the south side was reduced at the last timetable change, and this has caused overcrowding at certain times. The timetable needs a complete re-structuring at this time of day. Failing that, the ICR from the Rosslare line should be put to use, now that it is idle till 09.40, and between 15.45 and 18.35 (see my comments on the Rosslare line). After talking to commuters from Bray, I reckon that (if Bray has the highest priority for this train) it should leave Bray about 08.15 and precede the 08.37 from Dun Laoghaire (which would run a few minutes later). This is because the two previous trains from Bray come from further south and are already full on reaching Bray. As I said before, this train would run non-stop most of the way, because of capacity limitations. It wouldn’t actually be any faster. Remember – this line had a five-minute frequency at peak times a few years ago.

For the off-peak services, the move towards regular-interval working is a good one; I have become used to remembering which minutes past the hour that trains leave my local station. But for this to work, there must be no gaps. Remember that the whole advantage of regular-interval working is that customers don’t need to look up the timetable. Once there are gaps, this advantage is lost. Individual train times may be on the late side compared with the standard pattern, but not on the early side.

The most glaring omission is between 21.55 and 22.34 from Connolly to Bray, a gap of 39 minutes in what is generally a service every 15 minutes. There are two other half-hour gaps in each direction in the daytime on Saturdays. Has anyone noticed that there is also a gap in the no. 7 buses to Dun Laoghaire between 21.30 and 22.00? This bus runs less frequently in the late evenings, and the danger is that each company will think that the other is there as a fall-back option for passengers, when in fact both have a gap at the same time.
So I recommend the following changes:
1. Extend the 21.45 Howth-Connolly to run to Bray.
2. 09.55 and 14.55 Bray-Howth and 11.15 and 16.15 Howth-Bray to run on Saturdays.
Other changes to make the Howth and Malahide service more regular (which you have stated as an aim in the introduction to the draft timetable):
3. On Saturday s, 09.30 and 14.30 Greystones-Howth and 15.10 Bray-Howth run to Malahide instead, as on Mon-Fri. The first two of these are made practical by no. 2 above.
4. On Saturday s, 11.00, 16.00 and 16.30 from Howth run from Malahide instead, as on Mon-Fri (consequent on no. 3 above). See no. 7 for comments on the 16.00.
5. Stop the 10.57 Pearse-Drogheda at Clongriffin. The 10.47 departure from Pearse runs to Howth instead of Malahide, so the Drogheda train takes up the position in the regular pattern.
6. 10.45 Dundalk-Connolly stops at Clongriffin and Howth Junction. There is no 11.30 from Malahide, and passengers turning up at 11.30 catch the Dundalk train at 11.44. So there shouldn’t be an hour-long gap for Clongriffin passengers.
7. The slot at 16.00 from Malahide gets displaced to 16.05 because the Enterprise is coming through. The 15.52 (15.15 from Drogheda) is too early for the regular pattern, so the 16.05 (which should run on Saturdays as well) takes up this role. Can you find a way of stopping it at Portmarnock and Clongriffin? On Mon-Fri it could take up the path of the 16.31 Connolly-Dun Laoghaire, and the train starting duty at Connolly could run the 16.25 to Bray, which won’t now be held up if the Enterprise is late.
8. Trains departing from Bray from 17.40 to 19.10 inclusive can run to the opposite destination (Howth/Malahide). This will make the minutes past the hour the same as those in the daytime and in the later evening. Similarly, 19.00 to 20.30 from Howth or Malahide can come from the opposite starting point. If this can’t be done because of the 19.00 to Belfast, then make this change starting with the 18.25 from Bray, and stop the 19.13 Pearse-Drogheda at Clongriffin. Notice that when the Enterprise leaves on the hour (as in 11.00 or 19.00), it gets in the way of the regular pattern for Malahide trains.

DART on Sundays.
The 20-minute pattern between Howth Junction and Bray is maintained fairly well for the middle part of the day, but we could all do with the 20-minute frequency that applied in the late evenings until a few years ago. In the absence of that, the service remains half-hourly, so it is important that there are no exceptions on the early side. Therefore the 22.15 Greystones-Howth should run 5 minutes later, so as to leave Bray at 30 minutes past the hour, as the other evening train do.

It ought to go without saying that the 17.45 Howth-Bray should stop at Killiney and Shankill. As it is, it makes a gap in the 20-minute pattern that applies during the day. This non-stop run from Dalkey dates from December 2005, when it was to clear a path for the following Rosslare train. But since 2007, the gap between these trains has been getting wider. Now, if the train was to serve all stations, it would arrive in Bray at 18.53, a full 10 minutes ahead of the Rosslare train. And yet it is proposed to perpetuate this anomaly.

In the late evening, the layovers at Howth and Malahide are very long – perhaps there is scope to improve efficiency here. The biggest anomaly is in southbound departures from Malahide. There are trains at 18.05, 18.21 and 18.45, then a gap till two come together at 20.10 and 20.21. And yet a northbound train terminates at Malahide at 19.27, only to wait till 20.10 to return to Bray, following six minutes behind a train from Howth. This should be re-timed to about 19.45. The 19.45 Drogheda-Pearse already stops at Clongriffin, so this station won’t lose out.

[Jamie2k9]

Failing that, the ICR from the Rosslare line should be put to use, now that it is idle till 09.40, and between 15.45 and 18.35 (see my comments on the Rosslare line)

They may do maintence of the ICR before 9:40 departure. I prosume the Connolly ICR still have to go to Portlaoise?

[Inniskeen]

Originally Posted by Alan French

10.45 Dundalk-Connolly stops at Clongriffin and Howth Junction. There is no 11.30 from Malahide, and passengers turning up at 11.30 catch the Dundalk train at 11.44. So there shouldn’t be an hour-long gap for Clongriffin passengers.

If longer distance services are to be used to serve inner suburban stations then already unattractive journey times become even less attractive. Why would passengers from Dundalk, Drogheda, Laytown etc be attracted to rail travel if the train offers no advantage in terms of cost, comfort or journey time. The combination of a suburban railcar, intercity fare structure and hopelessly uncompetitive journey times just doesn't cut it I am afraid.

This issue is even more of a problem on the southside. While the half-hourly DART service to Greystones looks great on paper, the consequences for longer distance commuters has been catastrophic as in the absence of overtaking facilities, trains travelling to stations south of Greystones must closely follow DART services. The DART to Greystones is really really slow and barely averages 20 mph from the city centre - hence services to/from stations south of Greystones are hopelessly uncompetitive with the alternatives.

Originally Posted by Alan French

Notice that when the Enterprise leaves on the hour (as in 11.00 or 19.00), it gets in the way of the regular pattern for Malahide trains.

Even the most casual glance at the time table suggests that the 1100 and 1900 to Belfast should depart at 1105 and 1905 to avoid unecessarily encountering adverse signals as early as Clontarf Road/Killester. Yes there are departures for Sligo at 1105 and 1905 - these (and all Sligo departures) should leave at xx07 and spend less time waiting outside Maynooth station.