[Article] DART airport plan on track as Metro North hits the buffers

comcor · 03-05-2011, 12:49

As a proposal, it's pretty good, but presumably it would cost quite an amount of money and take some time.

In the shorter term, are there many stations that could be quad tracked through the stations to allow InterCity and Commuter trains to pass DARTs?

I would imagine Clontarf Rd and Howth Junction.

Also, possibly Raheny and Kilbarrack if you moved them from their current location?

I haven't travelled through Clongriffen since it opened. I assume it was only built with 2 lines through?

Mark Gleeson · 03-05-2011, 13:45

Irish Rail's reports favour 2 tracks on western side. 3 tracks possible within existing boundary. 4 tracks would require land acquisition. Every station and bridge would need to be rebuilt

The problem is Rahney to North of Howth Junction, there was no way to reasonably fit 4 tracks, only 3. Now the proposals suggested grade separation at Howth Junction. The Airport spur would be grade separated and merge just north of Clongriffen which is built with 4 platform already

The scale of disruption required would be immense and that is a serious concern

Should be noted the DART, 29000, ICR and Mk4 fleets are all designed to cat B fire standards and can operate in long tunnels. All you have to worry about is ventilation.

Cost wise to get 4 tracks in to Clongriffen would be 600+ million, add 400 million to get to the Airport and some extra trains say 100 million you are already 1.1 billion down, add in 4 tracks to Donabate could be another 400 million. But your airport spur is 8km the wrong way so a very slow route if you want to do Ballbriggan Airport Dublin its out as is Dublin Belfast via Airport as it adds 16km to the journey

Our tunnel option plus the loop back towards Rush and Lusk would be ballpark 2 billion, but its direct and avoids the need to grade separate Howth Junction, dig up Killester Donabate, avoids Malahide Esturary and provides a new service from north of the Airport. Best of all in distance terms its 2-3km extra at most but without the curves or traffic of the existing route so you can fly along at full speed. All Ballbriggan/Drogheda/Dundalk/Belfast would divert via tunnel. DART from Rush and Lusk on existing route. P&R and interchange at Rush and Lusk

Ignoring the complexities in isolation the spur doesn't work you need 4 track and interconnector and if you are going to go that far you might as well get the full package

ThomasJ · 03-05-2011, 14:15

Has anyone got access to ies initial plans for the DART dating back to 1991?

is it available online?

ThomasJ · 03-05-2011, 14:23

What about revisiting the maynooth line option? The spur would have been just after phoenix park?

Mark Gleeson · 03-05-2011, 14:34

File and materials in Members area ------>

eugene · 03-05-2011, 15:13

If I remember rightly, the original spur was to be have been though the Pelletstown/Royal Canal Park development, then would of looping round Finglas/Ballymun before heading to the Airport..

dowlingm · 03-05-2011, 15:26

What about terminal capacity at Connolly?

comcor · 03-05-2011, 15:47

Presumably, this would be in association with the Interconnector, so the trains would use it to get to Heuston and beyond.

Having a single connection from Heuston to the Airport is IMO a positive move.

There may have to be some thought given to how to connect the Sligo and Belfast lines though (Rosslare could connect at Pearse or possibly even have direct services).

I guess Sligo trains could run through to Pearse (or it could make an argument for Rosslare-Sligo direct.

Dundalk and Drogheda passengers could connect at Howth Junction. It would be questionable whether the numbers on services from the North could justify stopping Belfast InterCities there.

03-05-2011, 12:49	#1
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	As a proposal, it's pretty good, but presumably it would cost quite an amount of money and take some time. In the shorter term, are there many stations that could be quad tracked through the stations to allow InterCity and Commuter trains to pass DARTs? I would imagine Clontarf Rd and Howth Junction. Also, possibly Raheny and Kilbarrack if you moved them from their current location? I haven't travelled through Clongriffen since it opened. I assume it was only built with 2 lines through? Last edited by comcor : 03-05-2011 at 13:49. Reason: Said Harmonstown when I meant Clongriffen

03-05-2011, 13:45	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Irish Rail's reports favour 2 tracks on western side. 3 tracks possible within existing boundary. 4 tracks would require land acquisition. Every station and bridge would need to be rebuilt The problem is Rahney to North of Howth Junction, there was no way to reasonably fit 4 tracks, only 3. Now the proposals suggested grade separation at Howth Junction. The Airport spur would be grade separated and merge just north of Clongriffen which is built with 4 platform already The scale of disruption required would be immense and that is a serious concern Should be noted the DART, 29000, ICR and Mk4 fleets are all designed to cat B fire standards and can operate in long tunnels. All you have to worry about is ventilation. Cost wise to get 4 tracks in to Clongriffen would be 600+ million, add 400 million to get to the Airport and some extra trains say 100 million you are already 1.1 billion down, add in 4 tracks to Donabate could be another 400 million. But your airport spur is 8km the wrong way so a very slow route if you want to do Ballbriggan Airport Dublin its out as is Dublin Belfast via Airport as it adds 16km to the journey Our tunnel option plus the loop back towards Rush and Lusk would be ballpark 2 billion, but its direct and avoids the need to grade separate Howth Junction, dig up Killester Donabate, avoids Malahide Esturary and provides a new service from north of the Airport. Best of all in distance terms its 2-3km extra at most but without the curves or traffic of the existing route so you can fly along at full speed. All Ballbriggan/Drogheda/Dundalk/Belfast would divert via tunnel. DART from Rush and Lusk on existing route. P&R and interchange at Rush and Lusk Ignoring the complexities in isolation the spur doesn't work you need 4 track and interconnector and if you are going to go that far you might as well get the full package __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

03-05-2011, 14:34	#5
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	File and materials in Members area ------> __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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03-05-2011, 14:15	#3
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	Has anyone got access to ies initial plans for the DART dating back to 1991? is it available online?

03-05-2011, 14:23	#4
ThomasJ Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Clonsilla Posts: 2,812	What about revisiting the maynooth line option? The spur would have been just after phoenix park?

03-05-2011, 15:13	#6
eugene Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 132	If I remember rightly, the original spur was to be have been though the Pelletstown/Royal Canal Park development, then would of looping round Finglas/Ballymun before heading to the Airport..

03-05-2011, 15:26	#7
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	What about terminal capacity at Connolly?

03-05-2011, 15:47	#8
comcor Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cork-Dublin, Cork Commuter and occasionally DART and Dublin-Wexford Posts: 855	Presumably, this would be in association with the Interconnector, so the trains would use it to get to Heuston and beyond. Having a single connection from Heuston to the Airport is IMO a positive move. There may have to be some thought given to how to connect the Sligo and Belfast lines though (Rosslare could connect at Pearse or possibly even have direct services). I guess Sligo trains could run through to Pearse (or it could make an argument for Rosslare-Sligo direct. Dundalk and Drogheda passengers could connect at Howth Junction. It would be questionable whether the numbers on services from the North could justify stopping Belfast InterCities there.