New Train Service from Newry

[Mark Gleeson]

I'll have an answer to the legal issue of the 29k in NI by December 3rd. Isn't FOI great.

[EnterpriseUser]

It is a shame the service does not originate in Belfast at 0545 and give an arrival in Dublin at 0831: even with a change at Newry this would be valuable as the 0650 ex Belfast is rarely, if ever, on time!

[irishsaint]

now for me, only issue left is ticketing, it would be a waste to have to leave the Train at Connolly, Tara or Pearse to get an onward DART ticket considering this train will service stations to Bray. I use GCD. NIR tickets obviously dont work in the ticket gates, but surely there is something NIR and IR can do, perhaps have a staff member from Dundalk with a ticketing machine on board from Newry to Dundalk or something like that. But then we would be hit with IR prices and not NIR prices. Newry to Dublin monthly NIR is £216, same route with IR is €318 - £50 difference, its socking from IR because the next station on the route, Dundalk is €259 per month.

[Mark Gleeson]

But the Irish Rail ticket is available through the taxsaver scheme which cuts the price significantly.

Irish Rail is not subsidised to facilitate cross border commuters, the subsidy in Northern Ireland is considerably lower so you get issues with the prices. Now Irish Rail have told us that they see cross border hedging going on where one year a passenger buys the ticket from NIR and the next from IE depending on the prevailing situation. Under normal conditions 270 euro for that distance

NIR tickets are as valid as any other ticket and all the barrier lines are staffed or supervised at all times. All IE issued annuals from Jan 2011 are smartcards

Good point on the conductor, that is due to a lack of a proper radio system.

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

But the Irish Rail ticket is available through the taxsaver scheme which cuts the price significantly.

That is fine if you are not self employed or your employer is part of the scheme. I not having an employer who will sign up to the taxsaver scheme. Therefore, I do not get the significant tax savings in purchasing a ticket from IR, hence why I purchase the cheaper option from NIR.

[chris]

Afaik Dun Laoghaire and Bray are on the NI ticketing machines. Most staff don't know this however.

Unlike from the Republic, it is not possible to issue a ticket from N Ireland to any IE station.

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by chris

Afaik Dun Laoghaire and Bray are on the NI ticketing machines. Most staff don't know this however.

Unlike from the Republic, it is not possible to issue a ticket from N Ireland to any IE station.

You can only purchase a single or return to Dun Laoghaire, Bray or Howth. Not weekly or monthly season tickets.

Tara and Pearse are free (free onward travel for Enterprise Users) but all other DART stations are not on NIR's ticketing system. I have asked them this already.

[Mark Gleeson]

Actually NIR can issue a ticket to any destination, as the price is based on distance bands, the stations at the band edges are programmed in

Fare to the border, then an add on by distance from there

So a return to Blackrock from Belfast is going to be the same price as Dun Laoghaire so they issue Dun Laoghaire (that said Dun Laoghaire is actually hardcoded in since its considered an NIR station on the system - see the 1950 transport act)

The IE crouzet system can cope will all NIR destinations but applies the same calculation logic with the fares, the S&B TVM's are also programmed at Enterprise stations for all NIR destinations.

Based on European experiences we have one of the most integrated cross border fare systems, it is unheard of to be able to through ticket any to any

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Actually NIR can issue a ticket to any destination, as the price is based on distance bands, the stations at the band edges are programmed in

Fare to the border, then an add on by distance from there

Correspondence from NIR today:

"
Thank you for your e-mail. Our current fare structure does not include weekly fares beyond Dublin however, you do raise a very valid enquiry which we are currently investigating.

At this stage, I would advise that it is likely there would be an increase to your weekly ticket for travel to a DART station from £60.00 to approximately £66.00 (an additional £0.60 per single journey).

Please be assured we are looking into this matter and I will be in contact with you when we have a firm solution.
"

[chris]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Actually NIR can issue a ticket to any destination, as the price is based on distance bands, the stations at the band edges are programmed in

I appreciate that this might be the case, but NIR staff genuinely don't know it – including the manager of the Adelaide call centre and Enterprise ticket checkers.

[dowlingm]

Seems a bit bizarre if an IE set is heading north to Newry but not in revenue service, given that Dundalk station's first service is 0540 and is therefore open. The 0650 ex Newry runs all the way to Bangor via Belfast GVS (0754) which would surely be attractive to some.

[Mickey H]

There is not just the TPWS issue. Any passenger train operating in Northern Ireland must have a Guard (Conductor). This also applies to EMPTY passenger trains except between York Road Depot and Belfast Central.

[Mark Gleeson]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I'll have an answer to the legal issue of the 29k in NI by December 3rd. Isn't FOI great.

NI Dept of Regional Development have no record of any applications from Irish Rail on the TPWS issue. They have issued exemptions to NIR on behalf of the RPSI (TPWS + Black Box) and a time limited exemption on Enterprise (Black Box) and time limited on class 80 (central door locks). NIR made 8 applications in total

There is one application under review currently, steam locomotive 461

As a result a 29k is not legally permitted over the border unless it has TPWS

[Mickey H]

Just heard from a reliable source within translink that these trains will NOT now run

[Mark Gleeson]

Hmm.

[James Shields]

A possible solution for the Connolly to GCD leg is to buy an irish rail smart (dumb) card. There's a smart card reader on a pole at the arch between platforms 4 and 5. You could hop off at p5, tag on, and jump back on again.

[Mark Gleeson]

James, where is this smartcard reader? Pass the spot every day, spent 10 minutes on Saturday looking around

I clearly recall asking IE's smartcard team to look into providing one for this very purpose but didn't think it had been sorted out

[irishsaint]

Originally Posted by Mickey H

Just heard from a reliable source within translink that these trains will NOT now run

Correct - email from Translink today:

"....I regret to inform you that the introduction of this service has been delayed due to a number of operational reasons. We endeavour to resolve these issues at the earliest opportunity and it is still our intention to introduce this service in the near future...."

New service will now not go ahead on the 13th December

[Mark Gleeson]

So basically they need to wait for suitable train to provide the service.

Its amazing how management don't know the rules under which they must operate.

As of December 1st there is no application for the safety exemptions required

[Mickey H]

My previously reliable translink source expects this service to start in March using a 29K

Have they now made the necessary exemption application?