Autumn leaves and wheelslip

[ThomasJ]

Its that time of the year again autumn . And the leaves and wheelslip problem is cropping up again.

On the 19:30 pearse maynooth train tonight and it is a bit of a problem.

At ashtown it was a bit of a problem two or three minutes and we were off again. At castleknock it was a bigger problem.

It literally took us four minutes to depart from the platform a further two minutes going at a snails pace and we were moving again.

Problem departing from coolmine as well but not as bad as castleknock.

Needs to be sorted or it could be causing problems. Wonder are the sligo trains the same problem?

Edit: same problem at clonsilla you could see the train struggling. In fact two or three minutes after the clonsilla platform cleared you could see the train in the distance.

[Thomas Ralph]

There was an announcement on the DART I was on today apologizing for the delay.

[ThomasJ]

Come to think of it, the inbound train i was on this afternoon was fifteen minutes late. No announcements though at the station or on the train.

[Mark Gleeson]

Enough of the excuses, its not an unknown problem, not some act of god.

Irish Rail simply have failed to equip themselves with the equipment to deal with this problem. Castleknock is a notorious trouble spot yet Irish Rail have yet to buy a high pressure water cannon to clean the rails. Even sending someone out with a scrubbing brush would work.

The DMU fleet suffer badly as the powered wheels share a common drive shaft if one of the 4 wheels loses grip the other 3 get 25% more power and slip as well.

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Enough of the excuses, its not an unknown problem, not some act of god.

Irish Rail simply have failed to equip themselves with the equipment to deal with this problem. Castleknock is a notorious trouble spot yet Irish Rail have yet to buy a high pressure water cannon to clean the rails. Even sending someone out with a scrubbing brush would work.

The DMU fleet suffer badly as the powered wheels share a common drive shaft if one of the 4 wheels loses grip the other 3 get 25% more power and slip as well.

Actually it was like you could feel something happen with the wheels.the train stopped twice on the platform at castleknock and the train was stopped and started twice.

I wonder how much of a problem it could be in the coming weeks. What delays could be outbound and knockons inbound.

[Mark Gleeson]

Yesterday was horrible

Its much worse in the south of the country I'm told with trains sliding past platforms. Irish Rail of course seem to think the leaves fall only on Monday, Wednesday and Friday so do nothing on the other days to combat the problem

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Yesterday was horrible

Its much worse in the south of the country I'm told with trains sliding past platforms. Irish Rail of course seem to think the leaves fall only on Monday, Wednesday and Friday so do nothing on the other days to combat the problem

were they the reasons for the delays to services last night? [nothing mentioned on ie website]

A few of the evening services to Maynooth last night were delayed leaving pearse and connolly by upto ten minutes.

[Mark Gleeson]

Driver of my train reported wheelslip as the excuse for being 27 minutes late.

[finnyus]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Driver of my train reported wheelslip as the excuse for being 27 minutes late.

27 minutes late is just unjustifiable! is it laziness or what? I am a regular commuter on Midleton - Cork line, max I have been delayed has been 5 minutes, mostly 5 mins late leaving Cork. 27 minutes is unreal though. Just goes to show when you are not answerable to anyone you can do what you want!

[Mark Gleeson]

Well Midelton has had a train slide past the platform and end up well past the old signal cabin, that would have resulted in some serious delays

I can't figure out how a train could lose 27 minutes in a 40 minute journey, but this is Irish Rail, they truely make the impossible possible

[ThomasJ]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

I can't figure out how a train could lose 27 minutes in a 40 minute journey, but this is Irish Rail, they truely make the impossible possible

Yep that does sound strange but given the experience of being on that train sunday night, it wouldn't suprise me! passengers got so agitated the train was that slow! Can I ask mark what route that delay occured? and were there trains ahead of it?

[Mark Gleeson]

Soutbound Howth - Bray with a massive 32 minutes clear ahead of it. Between Pearse and DL not once did it slide under braking infact I didn't hear the anti lock mechanism activate at all and at one point the driver gave it the full 12%g braking rate without any problems. The train only lost 3 minutes while I was onboard mainly due to the fact the train was fully loaded resulting in longer station stops.

The train ahead of it was within a minute of correct time

[ThomasJ]

The weather condititions over the weekend tonight included might not help things.

[ThomasJ]

On this train tonight, some experience! Very slow, quiet and bumpy! The driver appologised for the problems citing extreme wheelslip conditions. We had this problem from ashtown to coolmine then it struggled after Clonsilla when I got off

[Mark Gleeson]

Tonight was worst case, bit of wind and rain caused chaos across the network. Its only when the leaves are wet do you get the worst of the wheelslip and by the evening there is none of the gunge applied to the rail left to help the train grip the rails

[weehamster]

Just had a though. Can IÉ not use one of the old locos and have some kind of brush/sweeping system attached to the front and in the early morning, and throughout the day, go up down down the lines?

[ColmmacO]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

Tonight was worst case, bit of wind and rain caused chaos across the network. Its only when the leaves are wet do you get the worst of the wheelslip and by the evening there is none of the gunge applied to the rail left to help the train grip the rails

Mark I have noticed some sort of whiteish material in and around the rails the last few weeks. I thought I was just imagining it, but is that the gunge that you were referring to?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by weehamster

Just had a though. Can IÉ not use one of the old locos and have some kind of brush/sweeping system attached to the front and in the early morning, and throughout the day, go up down down the lines?

Quite a few of the 22000 fleet has some equipment to help deal with leaves.


In the UK they are experimenting with industrial lasers to burn off the leaves.

[ThomasJ]

http://www.irishrail.ie/news_centre/...ew&news_id=947

Current delays to services due to low rail adhesion by Corporate Communications


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Low rail adhesion, poor rail conditions, wheel slip, poor weather conditions, or even the dreaded “leaves on the line”. There are different ways of describing it, but the seasonal problem causing delays to services in recent weeks is a familiar foe at this time of year.

It’s something this and every other railway has to face, and as the railway’s least favourite ‘season’ is underway, we want to explain to customers how exactly ‘a few leaves’ can cause tonnes of train to be delayed.

When leaves fall on to the line, particularly in wet or damp conditions, the rolling action of passing wheels compresses them, causing a greasy ‘mulch’ to cover the rail. This mulch is to rails what ice is to roads. It reduces the adhesion, or ‘co-efficient of friction’ to use the technical term, between wheel and rail.

If you’re travelling on a train that is covered in this greasy substance, you’ll feel the effect. Acceleration must be reduced to prevent the wheels "slipping", and braking distances extended. This causes delays. The leaf mulch can also affect the operation of track circuits.

Iarnród Éireann has machinery to address this problem, which spreads “Sandite” across the busiest and worst affected lines.

On a nightly basis at the moment, we drive the Sandite machinery across DART and Commuter lines around Dublin, as well as daytime operation between Thurles and Farranfore, and other problem areas as required.

This work can only reduce the impact of leaf mulch rather than eliminate it. The mulch is Teflon-like, and even hand-scrubbing could not remove it.

As you’ll have noticed, this year these conditions are having a particularly bad and ongoing effect on services. Regular minor delays at best are being experienced. The mild, damp and relatively calm conditions have not helped. However, we do expect delays to ease as the leaf fall concludes.

We apologise for the delays caused, and thank you for your patience, and we will continue to work to minimise the effect.

[James Howard]

The 1805 Connolly to Longford has been almost half an hour late yesterday and today. Got quite badly stuck leaving mullingar which has always been a bad spot. You would think there should be some way of sorting out places where you have an incline after leaving a station or signal.