Late Night Luas 2008

undo · 08-12-2008, 00:33

Rude drunks are certainly a huge problem in Ireland, but other places have the same issue and manage to deal with it.

Irish drinking "culture" is similar to that in Britain and they somehow manage to have 24 hour and night buses running on the same Oyster card.

Security staff you will see on night buses/trams in many cities, without being charged twice the daily rate for a ticket.

Don't get me wrong, I think the NightLuas is a great service as it is and currently probably cannot be provided at a price much lower than €5. But I believe that in the longer term, this kind of service should be much more tightly integrated into the general public transport system and should become something people can rely on being available each weekend, all year round, as part of the normal public transport in town - not a special Christmas gift.

dowlingm · 08-12-2008, 18:15

If bus/LUAS PSO doesn't cover after 2330 I wonder if this is something the Mothers Against Drunk Driving and other similar drink-driving/road-safety groups should be pushing for, at least on a targeted basis. There might still be a fare-premium for cash fare but this would be geared to additional promotion and service (minimum 20-30 mins on all routes even if that means using smaller vehicles). The sooner that people get moved out of the city centre the smaller the likelihood of incidents kicking off while people are hanging around waiting at taxi or bus ranks.

Over in these parts there is certainly a feeling that certain night routes deserve the term "Vomit Comet" but that it's better to put up with that and try and minimise it rather than abandon the city to the grasp of the taxi industry.

Colm Moore · 08-12-2008, 19:14

Well, ideally, the alcohol licencing laws would be linked to public transport schedules. If pubs and clubs in an area want to stay open late, then they should directly fund public transport.

Soberish people get the last bus home, drunkish people crash on the way home after "drinking up time". You can see it in the road fatality figures with a big jump after midnight.

chris · 08-12-2008, 19:40

You're right. What was the figure for how much a road death costs the Irish economy? I've seen it quoted before, and it would be interesting to see how many public transport trips home it would subsidise.

undo · 08-12-2008, 19:47

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...408550768.html

€3 million per death; that's a lot of trips on the Luas.

chris · 08-12-2008, 21:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by undo

€3 million per death; that's a lot of trips on the Luas.

Ok, so maximum fare home from the city centre is €2.20 during the day.
€5-2.20 = €2.80 which I'm calling the nighttime surcharge - what LUAS needs per passenger from the government to run a night time service at daytime prices

€3 million / €2.80 = 1,071,000 people safely home on the LUAS for the cost of one road death.

120 deaths due to alcohol every year on the roads, so I'm pretty sure you save one life for every 1,071,000 people you safely get home. (I have figures, but there's too much of a margin of error to put them up here.)

I'm really tempted to push the case for this when I get back to Ireland.

undo · 08-12-2008, 21:07

Running the Luas at daytime prices may actually have the nice knock-on effect for Veolia of more people switching from buses to the tram. So, Veolia would not just get reimbursed for the loss due to lower ticket prices but could make an extra buck from the additional people taking the Luas. And maybe at that point, DB get envious and decide to lower prices as well?

08-12-2008, 19:14	#3
Colm Moore Local Liaison Officer Join Date: Dec 2006 Posts: 5,442	Well, ideally, the alcohol licencing laws would be linked to public transport schedules. If pubs and clubs in an area want to stay open late, then they should directly fund public transport. Soberish people get the last bus home, drunkish people crash on the way home after "drinking up time". You can see it in the road fatality figures with a big jump after midnight. __________________

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08-12-2008, 00:33	#1
undo Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 95	Rude drunks are certainly a huge problem in Ireland, but other places have the same issue and manage to deal with it. Irish drinking "culture" is similar to that in Britain and they somehow manage to have 24 hour and night buses running on the same Oyster card. Security staff you will see on night buses/trams in many cities, without being charged twice the daily rate for a ticket. Don't get me wrong, I think the NightLuas is a great service as it is and currently probably cannot be provided at a price much lower than €5. But I believe that in the longer term, this kind of service should be much more tightly integrated into the general public transport system and should become something people can rely on being available each weekend, all year round, as part of the normal public transport in town - not a special Christmas gift.

08-12-2008, 18:15	#2
dowlingm Really Really Regluar Poster Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 1,371	If bus/LUAS PSO doesn't cover after 2330 I wonder if this is something the Mothers Against Drunk Driving and other similar drink-driving/road-safety groups should be pushing for, at least on a targeted basis. There might still be a fare-premium for cash fare but this would be geared to additional promotion and service (minimum 20-30 mins on all routes even if that means using smaller vehicles). The sooner that people get moved out of the city centre the smaller the likelihood of incidents kicking off while people are hanging around waiting at taxi or bus ranks. Over in these parts there is certainly a feeling that certain night routes deserve the term "Vomit Comet" but that it's better to put up with that and try and minimise it rather than abandon the city to the grasp of the taxi industry.

08-12-2008, 19:40	#4
chris Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2007 Location: Cambridge Posts: 131	You're right. What was the figure for how much a road death costs the Irish economy? I've seen it quoted before, and it would be interesting to see how many public transport trips home it would subsidise.

08-12-2008, 19:47	#5
undo Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 95	http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/...408550768.html €3 million per death; that's a lot of trips on the Luas.

08-12-2008, 21:07	#7
undo Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Posts: 95	Running the Luas at daytime prices may actually have the nice knock-on effect for Veolia of more people switching from buses to the tram. So, Veolia would not just get reimbursed for the loss due to lower ticket prices but could make an extra buck from the additional people taking the Luas. And maybe at that point, DB get envious and decide to lower prices as well?