Intercity journey experiences

[Mark Gleeson]

There will be 6 coach 22k services to Rosslare. Only one station is a problem, Rathdrum and as it stands it means only 1 door will be unusable.

Three options exist
1. Old fashioned public address warning
2. Get the ticket checker to use his/her key to set the door to out of service when the train leaves Wicklow or Rathdrum
3. Use the train computer to provide selective door opening, the computer certainly shows the state of every door in the train, I've had a play around with it

They will have 370-380 seats a train which is about 20 more than the Mk2 sets of old, plus it can carry 4 wheelchairs and 4 bikes. The CIE Mk2d must go down in history as one of the most horrible passenger coaches ever to grace these Islands

Curiously enough the Rosslare line has shown the greatest reduction in journey times of any route when you compare 1974 against today

[PLUMB LOCO]

Yes - Point taken the MkIIs - despite having 1st class compo carriages as part of the train make-up never officially had 1st class accomodation but why should the line not have 1st class?

Second point - as far as I know the Sligo line no longer has Fastrack - due to a lack of guards on the trains. Somebody please advise me?

Coming to Mark Gleeson's point that the checker could lock-off certain doors to get around problems of train lengths at Rathdrum. Again, as I understand it the days of regular ticket checkers are also numbered and this will leave the driver as the only IE employee on the train!

Another point that concerns me: I have noted that the Rail Gourmet staff regularly retire to the back cab on railcars when finished their shifts - should a non-IE staff member have access to the driving trailer of a service train? Health and Safety how are you???

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Yes - Point taken the MkIIs - despite having 1st class compo carriages as part of the train make-up never officially had 1st class accomodation but why should the line not have 1st class?

I think it's partially a case of lack of demand and partially that the trains are suburban for a good part of their run, so having a first-class section would just reduce the seating accommodation for regular passengers.

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Second point - as far as I know the Sligo line no longer has Fastrack - due to a lack of guards on the trains. Somebody please advise me?

At the moment it does not but it could be back soon as there is a recently-discovered parcel cupboard on the 22Ks. Don't know if there's any demand to speak of though.

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Coming to Mark Gleeson's point that the checker could lock-off certain doors to get around problems of train lengths at Rathdrum. Again, as I understand it the days of regular ticket checkers are also numbered and this will leave the driver as the only IE employee on the train!

I don't think ticket checkers are an endangered species in any way, especially on that line as none of the stations south of Bray have validation gates.

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Another point that concerns me: I have noted that the Rail Gourmet staff regularly retire to the back cab on railcars when finished their shifts - should a non-IE staff member have access to the driving trailer of a service train? Health and Safety how are you???

The console is locked off so it shouldn't be a big issue.

[PLUMB LOCO]

'At the moment it does not but it could be back soon as there is a recently-discovered parcel cupboard on the 22Ks. Don't know if there's any demand to speak of though'.

The discovery of a parcel cupboard on the 22ks, or the demand for Fastrack have no bearing on the matter. As I have stated before no guards - no Fastrack. It is that simple.

Given that some in Railusers Ireland seem to think that freight (incl.Fastrack) is mutually exclusive from passenger trains I don't know whether there is much point in my going on about it but here it is again made simple for certain members of the committee. More revenue from freight (in this case Fastrack) 'should' help keep fares down. Encouraging freight on to the railway makes the case for investing in the railway more acceptable - especially to that large part of the population who never use a train from one end of the year to the next. Given that CIE/IE were charging as much and, in some cases, more to send a letter by train than a passenger it would seem to make sense to remove some of the railcars seats and put in a proper parcels compartment. Will it happen - never! Time to bring on Michael O'Leary or someone like him not some semi-state bureaucrat like the present incumbent at Heuston Station.

[PLUMB LOCO]

'I think it's partially a case of lack of demand and partially that the trains are suburban for a good part of their run, so having a first-class section would just reduce the seating accommodation for regular passengers.'


Yes, the current Dublin/Rosslare Harbour service is partially suburban and this needs to be addressed. There is a good case to be made for making Greystones the first stop out of Dublin and the last stop in the Up direction. Why should inter-city passengers have to put up with commuters sitting all over them once the train reaches Bray in the Up direction or until they reach Bray in the Down direction. It makes the whole 'inter-city' experience wholly unpleasant. It doesn't happen on any other inter-city service.

1st class is the standard setter - even if little used - and services without it soon become 'sub-standard' class rather than standard class. The whole business class of traveller tends to be put off rail travel when 1st class is not available. Not from a snobbery point of view but more in terms of having somewhere quiet and slightly more spacious to work in.

The bloody awful catering also needs to be urgently addressed. The poxy, grossly overpriced trolley service simply is not acceptable.

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

The bloody awful catering also needs to be urgently addressed. The poxy, grossly overpriced trolley service simply is not acceptable.

Catering is an issue fleetwide. Of course with just two of the daily trains having even a trolley, it's that bit worse again on Dub-Rosslare.

[dowlingm]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Why should inter-city passengers have to put up with commuters sitting all over them once the train reaches Bray in the Up direction or until they reach Bray in the Down direction. It makes the whole 'inter-city' experience wholly unpleasant. It doesn't happen on any other inter-city service.

I understood that that is absolutely the case on the northern line to Dundalk/Drogheda

[CSL]

which is easy to fix by having Newry the first stop.

[shweeney]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Yes, the current Dublin/Rosslare Harbour service is partially suburban and this needs to be addressed. There is a good case to be made for making Greystones the first stop out of Dublin and the last stop in the Up direction. Why should inter-city passengers have to put up with commuters sitting all over them once the train reaches Bray in the Up direction or until they reach Bray in the Down direction.

In my experience the majority of passengers on any Rosslare train leaving Dublin are actually going to Bray or Greystones - there just aren't that many actual "inter-city" passengers on that line. The reason it has been commuterised is because most of the passengers (Wicklow, Arklow, Gorey as well) are commuters. Any time I've been on it south of Greystones theres been a lot of empty seats (and thats on a 4-car train).

WRT to the running time - the Rosslare and Gorey\Enniscorthy trains invariably seem to get halted after Sidney Parade to wait for the Merrion Gates to close. DARTs don't suffer from this presumably because the gates are closed while the DART is actually in SP station. The express trains should be given more priority here.

[KSW]

Originally Posted by shweeney

In my experience the majority of passengers on any Rosslare train leaving Dublin are actually going to Bray or Greystones - there just aren't that many actual "inter-city" passengers on that line.

Do you ever wonder why there are less people on this line.
(1) No Intercity train since July2004 we got a 2700 set train which departed outside Wexford, we got stuck with the 2800 sets which are really uncomfortable.

(2) The length of time between Gorey and Dublin on the train is really insane.

(3) Every train takes 40+ mins plus from Bray to Connolly thats a DART journey time.

I haven't used the train service from Gorey in about 7months and it is literally heaven. I used to travel on a daily basis but Now and many other people have DERAILED THE TRAIN

[on the move]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Yes, the current Dublin/Rosslare Harbour service is partially suburban and this needs to be addressed. There is a good case to be made for making Greystones the first stop out of Dublin and the last stop in the Up direction. Why should inter-city passengers have to put up with commuters sitting all over them once the train reaches Bray in the Up direction or until they reach Bray in the Down direction. It makes the whole 'inter-city' experience wholly unpleasant. It doesn't happen on any other inter-city service.

You can't blame commuters for skipping DART stops by using the Rosslare service. But the route is so slow, because south of Bray, it's all single track, so there has to mad waiting times at stations waiting for train coming from the opposite direction. This is 2009 not 1909.

In fairness the service has improved. As recently as 1993, steam trains used to operate the line.

[PLUMB LOCO]

Originally Posted by on the move

You can't blame commuters for skipping DART stops by using the Rosslare service. But the route is so slow, because south of Bray, it's all single track, so there has to mad waiting times at stations waiting for train coming from the opposite direction. This is 2009 not 1909.

In fairness the service has improved. As recently as 1993, steam trains used to operate the line.

In what respect has the inter-city service on the DSER line improved? Commuter carriages instead of inter-city carriages, no buffet car, slower timings......

Don't get your point about commuters skipping DART stops. Of course commuters will board any train that they can, I used to myself, but if the train no longer stops at Bray, Dun Laoghaire etc the option is not there.

What has 1909/2009 got to do with anything?

Your point about steam trains being to operate the line until 1993 is rubbish so why put it in? Incidentally, the RPSI (Railway Preservation Society of Ireland) still run occasional steam trains on the route - is this what you mean?

[Derek Wheeler]

Fastrack service has been the lifeline for Irish businesses for many many years. Why? Well because it was the quickest and cheapest method to send goods on a sameday service. A basic parcel can be sent to Cork from Heuston, station to station, for a mere 25 Euro. Get a courier to do it and its 400 euro! Don't even mention a taxi!!!!

The run down of the fastrack service is a disgrace, because it is not like the traditional freight traffic that people think of. It is actually a rail users facility on a very simple level. I have daily dealings with fastrack and I can safely say that if you think its a service that only "businesses" use then you are sadly mistaken. This service is utilised by many individual people in the movement of items. Regardless, the small business use, is paramount and it is a "railusers" facility, due to the multitude of private use. One should not get confused by the term "RAILFREIGHT". Fastrack is very different and very unique.

The Sligo line has a fastrack service, but Mullingar is ommitted, because the station people wanted more dosh, to pick up parcels, after the service had been done by van, during the use of commuter railcars. The sign in the fastrack office in Connolly clearly states that Mullingar has no fastrack service.

Fastrack should be a railusers issue.

[sublimity]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Yes, the current Dublin/Rosslare Harbour service is partially suburban and this needs to be addressed. There is a good case to be made for making Greystones the first stop out of Dublin and the last stop in the Up direction.

:

I see your point and agree totally.
It will hopefully be restored to its 'Intercity' status by Spring /Summer next year. First stop will be Bray though.

[Thomas Ralph]

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There will be 6 coach 22k services to Rosslare. Only one station is a problem, Rathdrum and as it stands it means only 1 door will be unusable.

I think the off-side platform at Enniscorthy may be a problem as well. It just fits six 2800s and I suspect six 22000s are longer.

[KSW]

Originally Posted by PLUMB LOCO

Yes, the current Dublin/Rosslare Harbour service is partially suburban and this needs to be addressed. There is a good case to be made for making Greystones the first stop out of Dublin and the last stop in the Up direction. It makes the whole 'inter-city' experience wholly unpleasant. It doesn't happen on any other inter-city service.

The Dublin/Rosslare has been a suburban since July2004 when the 2700 commuter railcars entered service on the line then later de-coupled outside Wexford. When the new 22k trains come on the line I think Greystones should be considered as the first stop in each direction. It would make the word INTERCITY on the Rosslare line more desireable maybe knocking of 5-10mins in approching bray/ stopping/ departing gaining speed again.

Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson

There will be 6 coach 22k services to Rosslare. Only one station is a problem, Rathdrum and as it stands it means only 1 door will be unusable.

Curiously enough the Rosslare line has shown the greatest reduction in journey times of any route when you compare 1974 against today

It seems pointless to me when IE were re-doing the platform lenghts down along the line when if they just lenghtened the platforms by another 20feet this wouldnt be a problem.

Mark you say the Rosslare line has shown the greastest reduction in journey times compared to 1974 im guessing this is by about 10mins. I would love to see the journey times of the years that past and just see how Irish Rail's new track upgrading / signalling have reduced their journey times !!!

Just curiosity how long does the train take from Wexford to Enniscorthy compared to what it should take without padding. Gorey to Rosslare would it take 1hour rather 1hr10mins and Wexford 40mins rather 50mins.

[Mark Gleeson]

About 25 minutes reduction was over 3:15, best today is 2:47

[Colm Moore]

One important thing about Fastrack and other non-passenger services.

Passenger numbers is the key indicator when the CIÉ group goes to government looking for money, parcels, bikes, etc. probably aren't counted.

Dublin Bus had to instruct their drivers to ensure that all season ticket holders and social welfare pass holders were manually recorded if automatic recording failed (theres a button to press on hte ticket machine).