DARTs, Luas and Dublin bus to be rebranded?

Thomas J Stamp · 21-04-2008, 16:06

changing the paint whilst Rome burns is a cod. same as re-branding t21 for several hundred thousand euros.

it's an outragious and disgusting waste of taxpayers money and it means nothing. zilch. nada. all it gets is Demspey a photo op. this country is a disgrace.

Mark Gleeson · 21-04-2008, 16:11

Good news is the entire DART fleet is due a paint within the next 2-3 years so its not too bad, only on the second paint job in 24 years

Dublin bus however have gone from orange to green to blue to yellow all in the same time

What odds we end up back with the 1984/1960's lime green routine?

Colm R · 21-04-2008, 17:34

To be honest, I have to agree with Thomas. I hate to be down on the DTA bill, but I don't trust the Government to deliver a proper organisation in the DTA. And its purely because of past performance on other issues. HSE anyone?

Rebranding and uniformity are great. It looks good and is in use all over the world. But a lick of paint doesn't make an integrated system. If they announced at the end of the entire process of integration that they were going to rebrand, then that would be the logical last step.

The fact that they are going to do this first, gives me the sinking feeling that this will be the first and last step. Its a compromise between the big players who will then continue to call the shots on their own modes independent of everyone else.

sean · 21-04-2008, 17:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thomas J Stamp

changing the paint whilst Rome burns is a cod. same as re-branding t21 for several hundred thousand euros.

it's an outragious and disgusting waste of taxpayers money and it means nothing. zilch. nada. all it gets is Demspey a photo op. this country is a disgrace.

With respect, I disagree.

Integration is an essential part of a transport service, I remember when I visited Germany I was very impressed with the transport systems in Munich and Berlin, particulrly Berlin's BVG, not just with the fact that they had trains everywhere thought that helped) but the fact that everything went under the authority branding, and I had an extensive choice of all-modes tickets.

It just seemed to be a single system, even though there may have been dozens of companies actually involved in the service, I would be hard pressed to name any of them other than perhaps Deutsche Bahn.

This sort of thing is important for a city travel system, particularly for new/occasional users. Someone who just wants to get from A to B with a minimum of hassle and doesn't really care who operates what or what their fares policies, this that or the other is.

Doing something similar in Dublin is NOT "changing the paint whilst Rome burns" because Rome ain't exactly on fire. Investment is accelerating, new lines are to be opened for the DART, Luas and Metro, while the Interconnector will bring it all together. There is some certainty of these things happening so the cost of a bit of paint is very little in the grand scheme of things.

markpb · 21-04-2008, 17:37

It's a good idea in the long run to co-brand everything but it's so hugely expensive that they should concentrate on things that really matter like integration in planning (routes, stops, etc) and ticketing. When that works, then they can bring out the crayons - the buses and trains will naturally need re-painting at that stage anyway so it's not wasting money.

philip · 21-04-2008, 18:48

I'm with Sean on this and believe common branding should be an early and integral part of the process of change. People should be familiar asap of the DTA's actual existence and a DTA brand is the easiest way to achieve that.

Personally I would advocate simply adopting the Dublin Bus scheme and changing the logo to DTA as the Dublin Bus fleet is clearly the biggest and it makes sense to repaint as few vehicles/stops as possible. It's also not bad on the eye.

Failing that, I would like a simple scheme of all blue like Munich. Cheap and cheerful but does the job.

Mark Gleeson · 21-04-2008, 18:56

Paint can only be done during scheduled downtime

Much as we would all love a all singing and dancing fleet wide coverage on day 1 it ain't going to happen and if Irish Rail think pulling a lump of the fleet so they are painted quicker is going to win them points they are going to feel our wrath as that will mean short trains

Get a simple vinyl transfer and slap it on the side, bingo you can get the DTA logo on the entire fleet in a matter of days and handle the repaint in the normal cycle

Average joe commuter doesn't care if its painted pink, blue or some other horrible colour

1. Is it on time?
2. Does it have a seat?
3. Is it comfortable?

Paint doesn't come into it

al2637 · 21-04-2008, 21:17

Have to say, I think it's a good idea. Single colour, single brand, get it into people's heads. Sure, do it in the normal cycle, weekends... whatever, but I think it's very important that people see all the different operators acting as a single system.

Sure, paint is cheap and won't solve our peoblems, but I'd be more worried if the DTA were saying they were NOT going to do this!

Colm Donoghue · 21-04-2008, 23:04

maybe if Noel Dempsey's department applied a few of their resources to allowing public transport companies run services to serve the citizens of Dublin in a reasonable timeframe and in a reasonable manner ( 41N through m50 tunnel is awaiting clearance for over a year, bus route from Dalkey to Dublin Airport is awaiting a license for over 18 months, CIE companies were not allowed introduce a simpler fare structure at the time of the euro changeover, despite closing the dart lines for over a year at weekends and receiving full planning permission to make all dart stations accessible, the DOT instead of making IE implement this, remove the statement that all dart stations are accessible from transport21)

or maybe if Noel Dempsey's department planned to introduce competition in public transport for the citizens of the country instead of for the providers of public transport.

Or maybe if Noel Dempsey cared enough to give citizens a bit more protection than Irish Rails Charter [1]

or maybe if Noel Dempsey actually gave the rpa a kick in the rear over their chronic under estimation of the demand for their trams services instead of [2] investigating if a longer tram would help...

Then maybe an auld paintjob might do something.

[1] http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp...g=ENG&loc=2274
[2]http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10523&lang=ENG&loc=2274

21-04-2008, 16:06	#1
Thomas J Stamp Chairman/Publicity Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: The Home of Hurling Posts: 2,708	changing the paint whilst Rome burns is a cod. same as re-branding t21 for several hundred thousand euros. it's an outragious and disgusting waste of taxpayers money and it means nothing. zilch. nada. all it gets is Demspey a photo op. this country is a disgrace. __________________ We are the passengers

21-04-2008, 16:11	#2
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Good news is the entire DART fleet is due a paint within the next 2-3 years so its not too bad, only on the second paint job in 24 years Dublin bus however have gone from orange to green to blue to yellow all in the same time What odds we end up back with the 1984/1960's lime green routine? __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

21-04-2008, 18:56	#7
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Paint can only be done during scheduled downtime Much as we would all love a all singing and dancing fleet wide coverage on day 1 it ain't going to happen and if Irish Rail think pulling a lump of the fleet so they are painted quicker is going to win them points they are going to feel our wrath as that will mean short trains Get a simple vinyl transfer and slap it on the side, bingo you can get the DTA logo on the entire fleet in a matter of days and handle the repaint in the normal cycle Average joe commuter doesn't care if its painted pink, blue or some other horrible colour 1. Is it on time? 2. Does it have a seat? 3. Is it comfortable? Paint doesn't come into it __________________ Unhappy with new timetable - let us know

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21-04-2008, 17:34	#3
Colm R Regular Poster Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: Dublin Posts: 106	To be honest, I have to agree with Thomas. I hate to be down on the DTA bill, but I don't trust the Government to deliver a proper organisation in the DTA. And its purely because of past performance on other issues. HSE anyone? Rebranding and uniformity are great. It looks good and is in use all over the world. But a lick of paint doesn't make an integrated system. If they announced at the end of the entire process of integration that they were going to rebrand, then that would be the logical last step. The fact that they are going to do this first, gives me the sinking feeling that this will be the first and last step. Its a compromise between the big players who will then continue to call the shots on their own modes independent of everyone else.

21-04-2008, 17:37	#5
markpb Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 541	It's a good idea in the long run to co-brand everything but it's so hugely expensive that they should concentrate on things that really matter like integration in planning (routes, stops, etc) and ticketing. When that works, then they can bring out the crayons - the buses and trains will naturally need re-painting at that stage anyway so it's not wasting money.

21-04-2008, 18:48	#6
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	I'm with Sean on this and believe common branding should be an early and integral part of the process of change. People should be familiar asap of the DTA's actual existence and a DTA brand is the easiest way to achieve that. Personally I would advocate simply adopting the Dublin Bus scheme and changing the logo to DTA as the Dublin Bus fleet is clearly the biggest and it makes sense to repaint as few vehicles/stops as possible. It's also not bad on the eye. Failing that, I would like a simple scheme of all blue like Munich. Cheap and cheerful but does the job.

21-04-2008, 21:17	#8
al2637 Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 191	Have to say, I think it's a good idea. Single colour, single brand, get it into people's heads. Sure, do it in the normal cycle, weekends... whatever, but I think it's very important that people see all the different operators acting as a single system. Sure, paint is cheap and won't solve our peoblems, but I'd be more worried if the DTA were saying they were NOT going to do this!

21-04-2008, 23:04	#9
Colm Donoghue Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 873	maybe if Noel Dempsey's department applied a few of their resources to allowing public transport companies run services to serve the citizens of Dublin in a reasonable timeframe and in a reasonable manner ( 41N through m50 tunnel is awaiting clearance for over a year, bus route from Dalkey to Dublin Airport is awaiting a license for over 18 months, CIE companies were not allowed introduce a simpler fare structure at the time of the euro changeover, despite closing the dart lines for over a year at weekends and receiving full planning permission to make all dart stations accessible, the DOT instead of making IE implement this, remove the statement that all dart stations are accessible from transport21) or maybe if Noel Dempsey's department planned to introduce competition in public transport for the citizens of the country instead of for the providers of public transport. Or maybe if Noel Dempsey cared enough to give citizens a bit more protection than Irish Rails Charter [1] or maybe if Noel Dempsey actually gave the rpa a kick in the rear over their chronic under estimation of the demand for their trams services instead of [2] investigating if a longer tram would help... Then maybe an auld paintjob might do something. [1] http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp...g=ENG&loc=2274 [2]http://www.transport.ie/viewitem.asp?id=10523&lang=ENG&loc=2274