Scoping study published - insufficient funds for Navan

[Navan Junction]

Originally Posted by philip

Naas can hardly be described as having a railway connection seeing as it was torn up many years ago and the M7 built over it. Sallins is not Naas and the road between the two is choked with cars anytime I'm on it.

True, but the people of Naas still use it despite the closer proximity of a 3 lane dc to Dublin and back.

Originally Posted by Victor

Theres many a county town that isn't the biggest of towns.

Yes, and a case in point is where Trim was the county town of Meath.

But if you take Navan as a county town and the consider that the M1 is shadowed by a railway, the M4 is shadowed by a railway, the N/M7 is shadowed by a railway, and the N81 is shadowed by a rail, the you spot fairly quickly a sizeable gap on the parrallel N2/N3 north-east corridor which is not rail served.

It's a gap in the map, full stop.

I'm not arguing blindly for the Navan project. It's not even the most important project in county Meath, that honour goes to Dunboyne.

but common sense means that it will happen, the question is when. Navan Drogheda would have been an ideal interim solution (interim being a long long time in an Irish context) but until the direct link is forced to a negative conclusion it just won't be considered.

Point is that the sooner the direct link either comes off the fence on either the posative side or negative side then nothing will happen. Most people would bet on the negative side which would open the door to Navan Drogheda again, with the direct link being put back to a later timeframe.

But until the process is exhausted that can't happen. The planning of the direct link has to be pushed forward to a conclusion to get to that point, otherwise there will never be a conclusion to the merry-go-round.

Every campaign focuses on talking up a project. But not every campaign can expect a successful conclusion if it;s primary objective is not met.

Even if Meath doesn't get Navan Clonsilla when the current process ends, it will at least be left with a fully open door to get Navan Drogheda.

Ironically, campaigning for Navan Clonsilla may yet yield Navan Drogheda. None of us knows where this will lead to over the next few years.

If I were to bet though I'd say the process will exhaust with a no to the direct route for now leading to Navan Drogheda for the interim, and Navan-Clonsilla at a later date (but a real later date).

But again it doesn't really matter what any of us think - politics decides everything in the end

[Navan Junction]

It's not dead baby, it's just taking a break

[losexpectation]

what do you reckon about this

Permission refused for M3 industrial estate
by Olivia Kelly

An Bord Pleanála has refused permission for an industrial estate
beside the new M3 motorway near Dunboyne, Co Meath, on the grounds
that it would damage plans for the Dublin-Meath rail link and
constitute an "unsustainable car dependent development".

Meath county councillors last June voted unanimously to rezone the
land for the 42-acre industrial /business estate, in contravention of
their own development plan. The application for 32 offices, light
industrial and warehousing units by Royal Gateway Holding Ltd, was
subsequently granted planning permission by the council but was
appealed by An Taisce to An Bord Pleanála.

In its ruling, the board said that the development contravened both
national and regional policies and was contrary to proper planning
and sustainable development of the area.

The development site was 1km north of a proposed railway station and
park-and-ride facility and would be "prejudicial" to the development
of a plan for the use of the land surrounding the major rail project.
The site would be accessed by a link road to the M3 which forms
an "integral part of the regional road and motorway system".

Additional traffic caused by the development would "interfere with
the free-flow of traffic and the carrying capacity" of the road and
thus "fail to protect public investment in the national road
network", the planning board said.

"It is considered that the proposed development, which would be
principally dependent on private car, would lead to the creation of
an unsustainable car dependent development."

are they saying industrial estates shouldn't be put next to entrances to national road systems?

but they were putting it next to rail access?

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by losexpectation

are they saying industrial estates shouldn't be put next to entrances to national road systems? but they were putting it next to rail access?

There is a risk that the carrying system of the transport system would be used by commuters (mostly in cars) instead of the delivery of goods and services. The location is rural, everyone would have to commute a substantial distance.

There is of course a secondary problem in the area with ribbon development. Yes, those big car parks at Dunboyne would be used by people who wouldn't have to pay development levies.

[philip]

I'm delighted with ABP and this decision. It's time we saw more local authorities' knuckles wrapped for innapropriate planning decisions.

[Colm R]

I am absolutely thrilled by this decision.

Are we finally going to see an end to bad development.

It was the one fear I had for County Meath, and that was the M3 corridor would become a long ribon of industrial estates from Clonee to Kells over the next 30 years. That would be unsustainable.

Now a bit of common sense at last. Meath County Council should hang its head in shame.

[ofjames]

how come the projected costing of the navan line is so high?

is there a particular reason for it or is that par for the course these days for a heavy rail build

[Mark Gleeson]

Cost is in line with our estimates, these things aren't cheap and they have to be done right

[Navan Junction]

Originally Posted by ofjames

how come the projected costing of the navan line is so high?

is there a particular reason for it or is that par for the course these days for a heavy rail build

Partly down to a vicious circle. The delivery date is 2015, so they are quoting 2015 prices as opposed to the current day prices which are about four and a half, or €130k less than the headline grabbing figure

The 2015 price of course makes it appear more expensive than heretofore expected but when you strip out the build inflation cost for the next 8 years then the figure isn't higher than expected by anyone.

There was no surprise in the cost, it was expected and known by IÉ and the DOT that this was what it would cost.

But the longer you wait, the longer it costs. Exactly ten years ago, IÉ carried out a report on the entire Navan Line (Clonsilla to Navan, none of your phases one to Dunboyne and two from Dunboyne to Navan).

Then, IÉ costed the entire line at £90m or so. But they didn't move on it then, and of course it was never going to get cheaper over time

To quote Pat Kenny, there is never a cheaper time to build things than now as the cost of infrastructure just keeps going up

There is a seriously severe whack of building inflation in that cost, especially if you compare it to the 1998 figure