[article] Iarnrod Eireann urged to reopen tunnel

[Mark]

Originally Posted by sean

One way Cork-Belfast could be done is like this:

I would be interested to know what kind of numbers would travel Cork-Belfast-Cork. I cant see it being high enough to warrent a change in the current set up. It there was a market for it id imagine Ryanair would have put planes on the route by now.

[Gary]

Originally Posted by Mark

I would be interested to know what kind of numbers would travel Cork-Belfast-Cork. I cant see it being high enough to warrent a change in the current set up. It there was a market for it id imagine Ryanair would have put planes on the route by now.

I would say what didn't work in the 80's isn't a valid reasoning by IE today because of change population spread and traffic gridlock etc.

Would think there is a market for it especially considering all the towns in between and amount of routes it would open up Drogheda - Portloais, Dundalk - Thurles. A train journey on one of these routes now would put anyone off using rail, 2 trains 1 tram and a whole lot of stress.

Having said that Bus Eireann have never ventured now this route of a single route so maybe its not that viable.

[Prof_Vanderjuice]

Originally Posted by Gary

I would say what didn't work in the 80's isn't a valid reasoning by IE today because of change population spread and traffic gridlock etc.

Would think there is a market for it especially considering all the towns in between and amount of routes it would open up Drogheda - Portloais, Dundalk - Thurles. A train journey on one of these routes now would put anyone off using rail, 2 trains 1 tram and a whole lot of stress.

Having said that Bus Eireann have never ventured now this route of a single route so maybe its not that viable.

Actually I think BÉ's approach is to encourage people to do journeys like this via its hub in Athlone. However, the services out of Athlone aren't all that frequent - only 1-4 buses a day.

[ccos]

I don't see why Cork-Belfast wouldn't work.

The service wouldn't only be for Cork to Belfast passengers, for example people travelling Kildare -Drogheda or Dundalk-Limerick can avail of the service as well as the Cork-Dublin and Dublin Belfast passengers who will also use it.
Most Long Distance trains I use (outside Ireland) carry very few passengers from Terminus to Terminus but still provide a valuable service with High usage as there is a high turnover of passengers travelling shorter legs.

While were at it what about a night train Cork-Dublin-Belfast and vice-versa during months with no R's

[Colm Moore]

Originally Posted by ccos

While were at it what about a night train Cork-Dublin-Belfast and vice-versa during months with no R's

Why then and not the rest of the year?

[Colm Donoghue]

ccos,
The interconnector will provide most of this, with no reduction of services to the existing users of services out of Connolly.

[ofjames]

Regarding the suggestions on running intercity services through the interconnector...how is this possible seeing as its been stated that only electric powered railcars may use the tunnel??

PS. How come such a restriction will apply to the interconnector when it clearly doesnt apply to the PPT??

[byrneeo]

Originally Posted by ccos

I don't see why Cork-Belfast wouldn't work.

The service wouldn't only be for Cork to Belfast passengers, for example people travelling Kildare -Drogheda or Dundalk-Limerick can avail of the service as well as the Cork-Dublin and Dublin Belfast passengers who will also use it.
Most Long Distance trains I use (outside Ireland) carry very few passengers from Terminus to Terminus but still provide a valuable service with High usage as there is a high turnover of passengers travelling shorter legs.

While were at it what about a night train Cork-Dublin-Belfast and vice-versa during months with no R's

Obviously. Think of all those trains in Eastern Europe, like Budapest-Bratislava-Prague-Berlin. It allows long journies while still catering for intermediate ones too. Though there are far more serious problems to deal with first.

[Gary]

I assume the Greens are in favour of the reopening of the PP Tunnel? If so and they get transport portfolio what sort of timeline do you think it would take to go ahead.

Also curious what sort of journey time would it take to go from Heuston to Connolly via PPT? Will it save people say on the Kildare route much time?

[Thomas J Stamp]

Originally Posted by Gary

I assume the Greens are in favour of the reopening of the PP Tunnel? If so and they get transport portfolio what sort of timeline do you think it would take to go ahead.

Also curious what sort of journey time would it take to go from Heuston to Connolly via PPT? Will it save people say on the Kildare route much time?

Timeline: it's being used right now so timeline is irrelevent.

How long does it take? Depends on what way they do it. Ideally the trains would stop at platform 11 at heuston (thats where we got the name from) and go up to Connolly. Perhaps 20 mins. Depends if they want to put in a station or two - like they planned over two decades ago - along the way and it depends on getting the slots correct.

To give a concrete example up till a few years ago the last Limerick to Dublin train on Sundays went to Connolly, but it pulled into huston first, everyone got off, it pulled out backwards by another loco - then went to connolly and this all took an hour. Proved it can be done.

IE know it can be done, we know it can be done. Problem is, a new face in the DoT will have to know it can be done as well, becasue IE will tell that new face that it cannot be done.

[Garrett]

Originally Posted by Mark

It there was a market for it id imagine Ryanair would have put planes on the route by now.

I believe Aer Arann already have a Cork-Belfast (City Airport) service. Don't forget the whole hassle issue with taking the plane over (relatively) short distances. Belfast international airport, for example, is quite a ways from Belfast city centre. Add to that the hassle of airport check-in and security.
Typical example is London-Paris. Flying from one to the other is usually a pain, whereas Eurotunnel is like a walk in the park.
Of course, Eurotunnel uses a TGV type train on a high speed rail.

In any case, my opinion is that a Cork-Belfast link should be the least of our worries. More important things such as efficient ticket integration, double/triple/quadruple-tracking of bottle necks, local commuter networks (Galway, Cork), Interconnector, customer service improvement and so on, are needed first. If these get sorted out, then putting together a Cork-Belfast link will seem like child's play.

[sean]

Originally Posted by Garrett

In any case, my opinion is that a Cork-Belfast link should be the least of our worries. More important things such as efficient ticket integration, double/triple/quadruple-tracking of bottle necks, local commuter networks (Galway, Cork), Interconnector, customer service improvement and so on, are needed first. If these get sorted out, then putting together a Cork-Belfast link will seem like child's play.

True, but Cork-Belfast 1-change could be done in the next timetable. By bringing Cork-Dublin trains to Connolly and rescheduling the Enterprise to meet them.

"But Connolly is full " one can hear IE cry. Well that's because everything that goes into Connolly from the West uses the Drumcondra line often to cross the mainline to the terminal platforms, leaving a fast, direct, twin track Midland line unused and P7 underutilised.

My view, which I've stated frequently, is that the approaches to Connolly, particularly from the West, are done in a very inefficient way. I believe this inefficiency reduces Connolly's capacity significantly. IE should have a plan to divide and harmonised Connolly access paths.

[byrneeo]

Originally Posted by sean

True, but Cork-Belfast 1-change could be done in the next timetable. By bringing Cork-Dublin trains to Connolly and rescheduling the Enterprise to meet them.

"But Connolly is full " one can hear IE cry. Well that's because everything that goes into Connolly from the West uses the Drumcondra line often to cross the mainline to the terminal platforms, leaving a fast, direct, twin track Midland line unused and P7 underutilised.

My view, which I've stated frequently, is that the approaches to Connolly, particularly from the West, are done in a very inefficient way. I believe this inefficiency reduces Connolly's capacity significantly. IE should have a plan to divide and harmonise Connolly access paths.

divide and conquer more like. if connolly trains coming from the north terminated at the same time as those coming from the west (in and onto platform 5 say) would this not free slots? or the less favourable option of enterprise trains terminating just as rosslare trains leave from 5. would this not only require one slot?

[Derek Wheeler]

PPT has a role to play irrespective of the interconnector.

1. It could've allowed some Kildare line trains into Docklands.

2. Post interconnector it could've allowed some outer suburban services into Connolly/Pearse.

3. Its route runs through huge housing areas. Stations could be provided at Blackhorse Avenue, Cabra x 2 and Phibsboro.

4. Even local commuter services could be provided.

It was planned for use on the original Kildare commuter project, running from Clondalkin to Pearse. Kildare politicians (namely Labour) got their mits on it and due to the increased pressure for Maynooth services and the extension from Clondalkin to Kildare town, the tunnel idea was killed off.

Local lobbying does nothing for the bigger picture. In fact it distorts it.