Baz delivers an Ad free loopline

Kevin K Kelehan · 12-01-2006, 13:13

http://www.archiseek.com/content/sho...4786#post44786

Any thoughts on a colour (s) for the now clear loopline?

sean · 12-01-2006, 13:24

Blue? Green? Purple with Lime polka dots?

TBH they were just as well to leave the ads on (it looks nicer) and - oh - I don't know - invest the commission back into the railways?

The only thing IMHO that would make that thing look nice is if the whole thing from Connolly to Pearse were ripped down and replaced with a either minimalist concrete deck or a cable bridge type thing. Not very likely though, and not very important.

Mark Gleeson · 12-01-2006, 13:45

Removing the ads won't really make a difference in what you are going to see as the lattice is quite dense

The bridge needs a paint thats the primary reason why the signs are being taken down in the first place

The only safe colour is a dark colour as it will hide the dirty and streaking which will occur

Now if you want to make it look good a bit of floodlighting could make it look quite impressive at night

Kevin K Kelehan · 12-01-2006, 14:05

I am very happy the Ads are coming down as the colours used in ads tend to be garish to attract the attention of passers buy. I also think that as a piece of industrial architecture it is an extremely impressive bridge and that it will look much better than it curently does.

In relation to the revenue, the CIE position was clever and honest; they secured permission for a number of their existing billboards to be converted from singular unlit ads to tri-frame ads with illumination which has added a large amount of income more than replacing that phased out by the removals on the loopline.

Mark · 12-01-2006, 17:35

The Sunday Times January 08, 2006

Loop line bridge is ad-free at last
John Burns

UGLY advertisements on Dublin’s Loop Line bridge, regarded as the one of the city’s worst eyesores, were removed yesterday after 40 years.
Campaigners have long demanded that Iarnrod Eireann clean up the railway bridge across the Liffey, which infamously blocks the view of the 18th century Custom House from O’Connell bridge.

But the company delayed removing the ads, which earn about €500,000 a year in revenue, until Dublin city council gave planning permission for 13 billboard sites elsewhere, in order to offset the loss of income. Iarnrod Eireann has now obtained permission for 13 “tri-vision” advertising sites, which have three constantly changing images on the same billboard.

“We will do a major repainting of the bridge later this year,” said Barry Kenny, a spokesman for Iarnrod Eireann. “We are very happy that this is all resolved. All the ads are going, and the bridge is being restored to its former glory.”

The Loop Line has caused controversy since its completion in 1891. It links the railway stations at Westland Row and Connolly, but instead of taking a direct route below the Gandon-designed Custom House, engineers decided to loop it above.

Bad enough that the city’s finest building was obscured, but the view from O’Connell bridge was disimproved further in the early 1960s when tacky ads for biscuits and drinks were installed on its steel lattice by CIE.

Due to growing protests, Iarnrod Eireann eventually agreed to discontinue ads on the Loop Line once its contract with advertisers expired at the end of 2005.

The Loop Line could eventually be demolished, however, and be replaced by a tunnel under the Liffey. Under Transport 21, the government’s recently announced plan, an underground interconnector linking Heuston station with Connolly is proposed, and a spur from Connolly to Tara Street railways would be a logical addition.

PaulM · 13-01-2006, 11:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark

The Loop Line could eventually be demolished, however, and be replaced by a tunnel under the Liffey. Under Transport 21, the government’s recently announced plan, an underground interconnector linking Heuston station with Connolly is proposed, and a spur from Connolly to Tara Street railways would be a logical addition.

AAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH HH.

I hate journalists. Would they ever read up on the issues they write about. Don't get me started on the "Tech" stuff I read in news papers.

Maskhadov · 13-01-2006, 11:40

Quote:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark
The Loop Line could eventually be demolished, however, and be replaced by a tunnel under the Liffey. Under Transport 21, the government’s recently announced plan, an underground interconnector linking Heuston station with Connolly is proposed, and a spur from Connolly to Tara Street railways would be a logical addition.

I dont know how exactly that would work, but my question is, if they were trying to get rid of the loop line bridge, would they need to replace most of the loop line or would it just be a short tunnel to replace most of the bridge?

Mark Gleeson · 13-01-2006, 12:05

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maskhadov

I dont know how exactly that would work, but my question is, if they were trying to get rid of the loop line bridge, would they need to replace most of the loop line or would it just be a short tunnel to replace most of the bridge?

About 5-6km of tunnel would be needed stretching from Sandymount (CIE had draft plans for a deviation under the city in the mid 1970's). You have to start in Sandymount as the line you would retain Pearse as is but remove the entire CDJR line from Pearse to Connolly. The far side of the tunnel would have to link to the Maynooth line

Verdict is bridge ugly but cost to remove is in the order of billions

PaulM · 13-01-2006, 12:32

If you were to start in Sandymount, you would be better off going back to Booterstown. This would get rid of the troublesome level corssings on the Dart. I can't see this happening anytime soon.

Kevin K Kelehan · 13-01-2006, 12:43

Something tells me we are stuck with the loopline for a long time to come.

A metro that travelled from Connolly to College Green and onwards to the Airport and re-routing the the Pearse-Tara to O'Connell St before rejoining at Liffey Junction en route to Maynooth as proposed by James Nix a while back would be the only way I can see it going.

sean · 13-01-2006, 13:21

Well, building a tunnel to replace the loop-line bridge would probably also prevent diesel trains from crossing the liffey and causing other technical problems - in addition to costing billions.

Logical addition my eye.

A better option IMO would be to replace the current structure with a minimalist concrete deck structure when the current structure is due for renewal.

But otherwise lets hope they change it to something other than that dark grey. How about a pine green? Or a Navy Blue?

Mark · 13-01-2006, 16:35

I was talking to one of the head engineers at IE a few years back about this. They realise that they are going to have to replace it at some stage. However they currently have no plans or urgency to do so at the moment. Its simply not on the agenda because it is not causing any problems. In fact its major flaw is that it is too critical to the network.

Look at Berlin for an example of similiar type structures, and theirs are double the width.

Frank MacDonald's "Construction of Dublin" book has a graphic showing how a new concrete deck structure would look. Custom House beign made more visible etc.

If they were ever to replace it in the future (and it would be crazy to even contemplate it before the interconnector is up and running) then by simply dropping the track down after GCD to enter into the interconnector would be my first option.

For the time being, removal of the ads is a fine attempt of bringing some light and glory back to the bridge. Its historically important for something engineeringwise but I cant remember what.

James Shields · 18-01-2006, 01:40

Quote:

Any thoughts on a colour (s) for the now clear loopline?

Personally I'm delighted to see the hoardings coming down. I know I'm in the minority, but I love the lattice structure and I'm really glad to see it exposed. I hope it gets a nice paint job to bring it up. I think the white on the Ha'penny bridge really works well, and would be stunning on the Loop bridge.

Quote:

The Loop Line could eventually be demolished, however, and be replaced by a tunnel under the Liffey. Under Transport 21, the government’s recently announced plan, an underground interconnector linking Heuston station with Connolly is proposed, and a spur from Connolly to Tara Street railways would be a logical addition.

As pointed out above, this is patently wrong. If you were to put in a tunnel, it would need to connect the Maynooth and Bray lines. On the northside, it would need to go underground somwehere between Glasnevin and Drumcondra, and on the south somewhere around Lansdowne Road - and you might as well make it south of Merrion Gate to cut out level crossings.

This would, of course, mean Diesels couldn't cross the city (except maybe at night when out of service). This wouldn't necessarily be a bad thing. Diesels from the north could continue to run into Connolly, and from the south overground into Pearse, but in both cases they would now be fully segregated from the DART for the last leg of the journey.

The biggest problem is, of course, expense. I'm not digging out Google Earth right now, but I'd guess we're talking about the guts of 10km.

The other issue is, of course, that the Loop bridge is itself a listed structure, which precludes getting rid of it as long as it's not unsafe (though I presume there's a procedure by which it can be "unlisted".

When it does come to be replaced, it doesn't necessarily have to be completly shut down to do so. The original wrought iron portion of the Drogheda Boyne viaduct was replaced in the 1920s by building the new steel structure inside the iron girders and removing the iron supports after. This is one of the reasons that the bridge can no longer take two tracks. It's possible that a new structure could be built around the current bridge, allowing at least some level of service while the works are ongoing.

Kevin K Kelehan · 18-01-2006, 09:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostcarpark

The other issue is, of course, that the Loop bridge is itself a listed structure, which precludes getting rid of it as long as it's not unsafe (though I presume there's a procedure by which it can be "unlisted".

Getting it de-listed would not be a problem as the gain of the view of the Custom House from O'Connell Bridge would be viewed as a greater gain.

However the financial case for removing the loopline simply does not exist unless a lot of oil is discovered in Kilgarvan

philip · 18-01-2006, 13:40

Am I the only one who likes the Loop line? I love the trains rumbling overhead. So it spoils the vista of Gandon's masterpiece from O'Connell bridge but you can get great iews of the custom house from downriver. The Loop line bridge is a great piece of Victorian 'can-do' architecture (something we are sadly lacking today) and I too would like it painted white and floodlight at night. It would be spectacular.

weehamster · 18-01-2006, 16:25

The only option i feel is to replace the bridge as we can go underground. Didnt somebody here say before that it is unstable for a metro to go under Connolly?

Replace the Bridge with a similar bridge design to this.

You should be able to see more of the Customs House.

Mark Gleeson · 18-01-2006, 16:49

The issue was the interconnector under Connolly, sufficent depth was the problem as the access to the tunnel would be very very tight

Doable but extremely expensive

Simplest thing is to simply replace the girders with a thin concrete span eg Dargan Bridge Belfast, I think that would look worse in fact. A Dundrum style bridge would be overkill plus you got to anchor it down somewhere

Maskhadov · 18-01-2006, 16:55

Quite a few people I spoken to actually like the loop line bridge, they like the trains going over and like the 'lattice structure'. The only drawback is the lack of view. I guess nothing is perfect.

A 6km tunnel would be expensive, it would have to offer new services. But it would make the captial seem a lot bigger IMHO.

12-01-2006, 13:13	#1
Kevin K Kelehan Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Tower Posts: 355	Baz delivers an Ad free loopline http://www.archiseek.com/content/sho...4786#post44786 Any thoughts on a colour (s) for the now clear loopline?

12-01-2006, 13:24	#2
sean Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 707	Blue? Green? Purple with Lime polka dots? TBH they were just as well to leave the ads on (it looks nicer) and - oh - I don't know - invest the commission back into the railways? The only thing IMHO that would make that thing look nice is if the whole thing from Connolly to Pearse were ripped down and replaced with a either minimalist concrete deck or a cable bridge type thing. Not very likely though, and not very important. Last edited by sean : 12-01-2006 at 13:34.

18-01-2006, 16:25	#16
weehamster Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Cathair Bhaile Átha Cliath Posts: 199	The only option i feel is to replace the bridge as we can go underground. Didnt somebody here say before that it is unstable for a metro to go under Connolly? Replace the Bridge with a similar bridge design to this. You should be able to see more of the Customs House. __________________ R.I.P. T21 Eradicate Fianna Fáil (Totally)

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12-01-2006, 13:45	#3
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	Removing the ads won't really make a difference in what you are going to see as the lattice is quite dense The bridge needs a paint thats the primary reason why the signs are being taken down in the first place The only safe colour is a dark colour as it will hide the dirty and streaking which will occur Now if you want to make it look good a bit of floodlighting could make it look quite impressive at night

12-01-2006, 14:05	#4
Kevin K Kelehan Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Tower Posts: 355	I am very happy the Ads are coming down as the colours used in ads tend to be garish to attract the attention of passers buy. I also think that as a piece of industrial architecture it is an extremely impressive bridge and that it will look much better than it curently does. In relation to the revenue, the CIE position was clever and honest; they secured permission for a number of their existing billboards to be converted from singular unlit ads to tri-frame ads with illumination which has added a large amount of income more than replacing that phased out by the removals on the loopline.

12-01-2006, 17:35	#5
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311	The Sunday Times January 08, 2006 Loop line bridge is ad-free at last John Burns UGLY advertisements on Dublin’s Loop Line bridge, regarded as the one of the city’s worst eyesores, were removed yesterday after 40 years. Campaigners have long demanded that Iarnrod Eireann clean up the railway bridge across the Liffey, which infamously blocks the view of the 18th century Custom House from O’Connell bridge. But the company delayed removing the ads, which earn about €500,000 a year in revenue, until Dublin city council gave planning permission for 13 billboard sites elsewhere, in order to offset the loss of income. Iarnrod Eireann has now obtained permission for 13 “tri-vision” advertising sites, which have three constantly changing images on the same billboard. “We will do a major repainting of the bridge later this year,” said Barry Kenny, a spokesman for Iarnrod Eireann. “We are very happy that this is all resolved. All the ads are going, and the bridge is being restored to its former glory.” The Loop Line has caused controversy since its completion in 1891. It links the railway stations at Westland Row and Connolly, but instead of taking a direct route below the Gandon-designed Custom House, engineers decided to loop it above. Bad enough that the city’s finest building was obscured, but the view from O’Connell bridge was disimproved further in the early 1960s when tacky ads for biscuits and drinks were installed on its steel lattice by CIE. Due to growing protests, Iarnrod Eireann eventually agreed to discontinue ads on the Loop Line once its contract with advertisers expired at the end of 2005. The Loop Line could eventually be demolished, however, and be replaced by a tunnel under the Liffey. Under Transport 21, the government’s recently announced plan, an underground interconnector linking Heuston station with Connolly is proposed, and a spur from Connolly to Tara Street railways would be a logical addition.

13-01-2006, 12:32	#9
PaulM Really Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 826	If you were to start in Sandymount, you would be better off going back to Booterstown. This would get rid of the troublesome level corssings on the Dart. I can't see this happening anytime soon.

13-01-2006, 12:43	#10
Kevin K Kelehan Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Tower Posts: 355	Something tells me we are stuck with the loopline for a long time to come. A metro that travelled from Connolly to College Green and onwards to the Airport and re-routing the the Pearse-Tara to O'Connell St before rejoining at Liffey Junction en route to Maynooth as proposed by James Nix a while back would be the only way I can see it going.

13-01-2006, 13:21	#11
sean Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Dublin Posts: 707	Well, building a tunnel to replace the loop-line bridge would probably also prevent diesel trains from crossing the liffey and causing other technical problems - in addition to costing billions. Logical addition my eye. A better option IMO would be to replace the current structure with a minimalist concrete deck structure when the current structure is due for renewal. But otherwise lets hope they change it to something other than that dark grey. How about a pine green? Or a Navy Blue?

13-01-2006, 16:35	#12
Mark Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Northern line Posts: 1,311	I was talking to one of the head engineers at IE a few years back about this. They realise that they are going to have to replace it at some stage. However they currently have no plans or urgency to do so at the moment. Its simply not on the agenda because it is not causing any problems. In fact its major flaw is that it is too critical to the network. Look at Berlin for an example of similiar type structures, and theirs are double the width. Frank MacDonald's "Construction of Dublin" book has a graphic showing how a new concrete deck structure would look. Custom House beign made more visible etc. If they were ever to replace it in the future (and it would be crazy to even contemplate it before the interconnector is up and running) then by simply dropping the track down after GCD to enter into the interconnector would be my first option. For the time being, removal of the ads is a fine attempt of bringing some light and glory back to the bridge. Its historically important for something engineeringwise but I cant remember what.

18-01-2006, 13:40	#15
philip Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 632	Am I the only one who likes the Loop line? I love the trains rumbling overhead. So it spoils the vista of Gandon's masterpiece from O'Connell bridge but you can get great iews of the custom house from downriver. The Loop line bridge is a great piece of Victorian 'can-do' architecture (something we are sadly lacking today) and I too would like it painted white and floodlight at night. It would be spectacular.

18-01-2006, 16:49	#17
Mark Gleeson Technical Officer Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Coach C, Seat 33 Posts: 12,669	The issue was the interconnector under Connolly, sufficent depth was the problem as the access to the tunnel would be very very tight Doable but extremely expensive Simplest thing is to simply replace the girders with a thin concrete span eg Dargan Bridge Belfast, I think that would look worse in fact. A Dundrum style bridge would be overkill plus you got to anchor it down somewhere

18-01-2006, 16:55	#18
Maskhadov Regular Poster Join Date: Dec 2005 Posts: 74	Quite a few people I spoken to actually like the loop line bridge, they like the trains going over and like the 'lattice structure'. The only drawback is the lack of view. I guess nothing is perfect. A 6km tunnel would be expensive, it would have to offer new services. But it would make the captial seem a lot bigger IMHO.