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Unread 23-07-2008, 15:34   #41
Mark Gleeson
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Money making yes but not for Irish Rail, its for CIE and even then they are only getting a fraction of the take

13,000 new spaces
5,500 existing spaces

18,500 total
less 10% for wheelchair/accessible spaces
16,650
assume 90% weekday occupancy at €8 per space for 50 weeks
15,000 * 8 * 50 = €6 million

CIE get a €1 million per annum slice with ZERO guarantee of investment in the service, can't find anywhere where CIE's massive property income out of Spencer Dock has reached the rail accounts

Given they now are going to jack up the €5 charge, the game is afoot for something we are looking into
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Unread 23-07-2008, 20:54   #42
Thomas Ralph
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigger1962 View Post
note this line from above!! so it is a money making exercise!!
Well at least they're being upfront about it.
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Unread 24-07-2008, 14:44   #43
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Some interesting quotes from the DTO's "Rail Park & Ride Strategy for the Greater Dublin Area"

Under "Key Success Factors of Rail Park and Ride"


Quote:
Originally Posted by DTO
All types of Park and Ride facilities, whether local or strategic in function,
share many common features. In essence, the facility should offer a space to
park a car safely and securely, and within a short time, get a space on a
public transport vehicle that offers a competitive journey time to the desired
destination.
There's nothing in the announced plan about secure parking.


Quote:
The operation of the car park should not generate undue congestion on the
local road network. Access and egress movements by car to and from the
Park and Ride site should not conflict with walking and cycling networks
providing access to the station. A Transport Impact Assessment should be
carried out for each proposed local Park and Ride site, as part of a detailed
feasibility study.
Have any such assessments been undertaken?


Quote:
Minimum Specification for new or Expanded Park and Ride Sites
6.4.1 Design
The design of the car park should incorporate the following basic facilities:
• cycle parking. The number of spaces provided should in all cases be
sufficient to cater for existing and suppressed demand for cycling at
the station. The cycle parking should be secure (in a place that is
visible by site management / CCTV ) and covered. The cycle parking
should, in all cases meet the specification of the DTO Traffic
Management Guidelines;
• pedestrian access to public transport services;
• operational requirements for public transport vehicles (taxis, buses,
etc) and ticketing systems and
• car passenger drop-off and pick-up facilities (Kiss and Ride)
• Passenger facilities, including personal security measures, lighting,
landscaping, litter bins, public transport information, footpaths,
pedestrian crossing, directional signage, shelter while waiting.
Like any of that is going to happen


Quote:
Control and payment arrangements for the Park and Ride facility should be
easy to use, and should ensure that the car park spaces are occupied by the
cars of rail users only. Ideally, one charge should cover access and egress to/
from the car park and to/ from the public transport service
. The Park and
Ride control and payment strategy should be compatible with the proposed
Integrated Ticketing System (Smartcard for the GDA). Cycle parking should
be provided free in all cases
.
Again, not going to happen in the near future.


Of course, this is largely irrelevant, because this isn't about Park & Ride, this is about IE gouging more cash from its customers.
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Unread 24-07-2008, 15:08   #44
Mark Gleeson
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Be careful about where you quote from the DTO also say the users of the park and ride should contribute to the cost
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Unread 25-07-2008, 11:35   #45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
Be careful about where you quote from the DTO also say the users of the park and ride should contribute to the cost
True, but they're talking about proper car parks with security, lighting, shelter, foothpaths, landscaping: and that's their minimum specification.
And parking fees integrated with tickets, and with the smartcard system.

I don't know if there'd be as much outcry over the new charges if these were being provided, rather than sticking a 2 euro charge on the existing slab of bare tarmac.


Is there not government funding already allocated for provision of parking anyway which IE haven't used? Thought I saw it mentioned somewhere before.
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Unread 25-07-2008, 11:50   #46
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The capital costs are paid by government, we have that in writing from Irish Rail.

We are investigating several avenues, members section has more
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Unread 28-07-2008, 12:25   #47
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Originally Posted by Brian Condron View Post
I for one am for this. Let's get this straight, there is no such thing as "free parking". Back when there wasn't as many cars on the street parking was paid for out of taxes, however that is impossible now. Large out of town shopping centres with 250,000 "free" parking spaces get their money by adding it to the cost of what they sell. "Free" parking at railway stations came out of the Irish Rail budget and effectively all of us paid for it as part of our ticket. There was no reduction for those of us who leave the car parked at home. I am satisfied now that none of my fare is going to subsidise those who park at the station. For €5 a week I'd argue that the price isn't steep enough.
A voice of reason!! Well done sir.

I walk over a mile each day to the station, and the same back - even in the depths of winter - despite having a car available. I arrive at the station warm, and awake. I do not pollute that atmosphere (much!). OTOH, I see people driving less than 1/4 mile to the station, then sitting in their cars in the car with the engine running (to keep air-con on in summer, heat in winter I presume), then getting out as the train arrives, delaying departure of said train. The reverse "race" in the evening is laughable - after the 1750 ex Heuston leaves Newbridge, people start walking to the front of the train to be first off, by Monasterevin the front coach is full of lemmings in the corridor. Getting off three coaches back and walking past them still fighting their way out and running towards the bridge brings some light entertainment at the end of the day. Completely sad.

If I take a day off, as I did recently,to travel to Dublin Airport to meet elderly relative and assist them home with luggage, I cannot get into the station car park because of these lazy (insert own name here).

Brass neck of the week award goes to Portlaoise councillor in the local rag, who says IE should not charge - but is quite happy with on-street car parking charges in the town!

LC
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Unread 28-07-2008, 13:55   #48
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I've been witness to the scrum to exit the train. Its mainly a result of the poor local infrastructure and poor car park exits when means unless you exit in the first few you could be stuck for a long time

The whole you can walk routine is great until you realise the pedestrian access is rubbish to most stations, and the pedestrians have to dice with the car park traffic, give Newbridge or Kildare a spin. Templemore is a blast as well, but its such a walk from the town that you couldn't blame anyone for driving.

The capital cost is paid for by the tax payer regardless of a charge or not
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Unread 28-07-2008, 14:37   #49
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Anyone see the new ads from Dublin Bus?

It says take the bus to avoid rip off car parking.

Who says CIE don't have a sense of humour?
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Unread 28-07-2008, 14:58   #50
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For both my wife and I travelling together, these car park charges push the cost of rail travel within about €200 of sharing a car (even after estimating approx 50% back from taxsaver scheme). Although we'd have to get up earlier, the car always leaves when it's supposed to, goes right into the city centre, takes at least 30 minutes less each way, and it's like getting a full refund for every day we don't travel at all. We are seriously considering it for next year.

Anyone who thinks our car park is worth €2 a day has to be kidding. Loose gravel and the smashed glass of broken-into and burnt-out cars isn't what I'd consider a paid-for parking surface to be. It'd only take a single incident in the whole year to finally push the cost of rail travel over the car.

And no, there's no bike racks.
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Unread 28-07-2008, 15:02   #51
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We encourage photographs
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Unread 29-07-2008, 10:24   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Gleeson View Post
The whole you can walk routine is great until you realise the pedestrian access is rubbish to most stations, and the pedestrians have to dice with the car park traffic, give Newbridge or Kildare a spin.
Planning permission has been given for a pedestrian overbridge at Newbridge Station. Believe it will be accessible from the new station car park on the Dublin side.
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Unread 30-07-2008, 16:49   #53
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Just touching on a different note for a sec, do you reckon people in communities around the rail stations affected are aware of what impact this could have. With people parking on local housing estates instead.

Coolmine has an issue at the moment where passengers are parking in local housing areas taking up room and local residents are concerned this will get worse.

There is an article on this in the blanch gazette will post it later.

Last edited by ThomasJ : 30-07-2008 at 16:51.
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Unread 30-07-2008, 17:41   #54
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Some residents in Dunboyne didn't want access form their estate to the proposed station to stop it turning into a car park. No doubt they will then drive to the station.
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Unread 30-07-2008, 17:51   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Victor View Post
Some residents in Dunboyne didn't want access form their estate to the proposed station to stop it turning into a car park. No doubt they will then drive to the station.
No doubt about it victor.

note that the changes to the blanchardstown bus route changes that would have seen access to rail stations in dublin 15 by bus improve and a fifteen minute journey between dunboyne and clonsilla rail by the 270.

All this has been rejected by the same department that have approved these parking charges.
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Unread 30-07-2008, 19:30   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
No doubt about it victor.

note that the changes to the blanchardstown bus route changes that would have seen access to rail stations in dublin 15 by bus improve and a fifteen minute journey between dunboyne and clonsilla rail by the 270.

All this has been rejected by the same department that have approved these parking charges.
I think the term for that is "holistic solution".

In what other nation would you get the Department of Transport refusing to sanction a bus route that served a large non rail connected area with a train station?

The Department of Transport have to be challenged and shamed publicly for this. Julie O'Neill really does earn her money doesn't she?
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Unread 30-07-2008, 20:11   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Hennessy View Post
I think the term for that is "holistic solution".

In what other nation would you get the Department of Transport refusing to sanction a bus route that served a large non rail connected area with a train station?

The Department of Transport have to be challenged and shamed publicly for this. Julie O'Neill really does earn her money doesn't she?
Bang on mark. The fact is we have been pushing feeder bus services when we cant even get a proper core bus service in operation.

What is going on with bus services in west dublin and kildare is nothing short of a scandal. Ok this is not the place maybe to discuss this.

Introducing pay parking without proper alternative services is like introducing the congestion charge without any reasonable alternative.

In fact in all of the statements brought out since they announced this charge irish rail have failed to suggest to people why not take the bus to the station where possible?
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Unread 30-07-2008, 20:38   #58
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Originally Posted by ThomasJ View Post
What is going on with bus services in west dublin and kildare is nothing short of a scandal. Ok this is not the place maybe to discuss this.
discuss away
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Unread 31-07-2008, 03:00   #59
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Well, here is a bit of insight from Joan Burtons blog going back to last month

http://www.joanburton.ie/?postid=900

Quote:
Minister Puts up Roadblock to Better Dublin 15 Bus Service
June 26, 2008

In a recent meeting with representatives from Dublin Bus, Deputy Joan Burton has learned that the strict interpretation of competition rules by the Minister for Transport, Noel Dempsey TD, has cast doubt on a whole series of improvements to the Dublin Bus service in Dublin 15.

Deputy Burton commented “I was shocked to hear that much needed and long awaited improvements to the Dublin 15 bus service have been thrown into doubt because of Minister Dempsey’s ideologically motivated interpretation of competition rules. Over the past year, Dublin Bus has been carrying out a root-and-branch analysis of its Dublin 15 network with a view to making significant improvements. Given the amount of housing development in the area over the last decade, this is not before time.”

“There is currently a private operator running a popular and valuable hourly service to the airport and there is no suggestion that Dublin Bus is trying to compete with the airport route. However, there may be some element of overlap along a very small section of one of the proposed new Dublin Bus routes. I understand that the Minister has rejected the Dublin Bus application to extend one of its routes due to this small overlap with the private operator’s route even though they are clearly not in direct competition.”

“The net effect of this decision goes beyond simply the single Dublin Bus route extension. This extension would have freed up more buses to increase frequency on the 70 and 270 routes for a start. The Minister’s decision will discommode a significant number of people merely for the sake of protecting a private operator from possible, minimal impact. In fact, I am informed that the private operator in question has not even made an issue of this, which would give an indication of the low level of potential impact the changes could have on that business.”

“This situation comes hot on the heels of a similarly bizarre situation where Dublin Bus was initially barred from running certain express buses through the Dublin Port Tunnel, even though they were not in direct competition with a private operator along most of the route. Fortunately for the people of River Valley in Swords, the Minister has come to his senses in recent weeks and has decided to allow these buses to use the tunnel. I would now call on him to review his potentially far-reaching decision with respect to Dublin 15.”

“I find it baffling that we have a Minister in charge of our public transport system that doesn’t seem to believe in the concept of public transport. Most people don’t really care whether it is a public or private operator who is providing the bus service as long as that service is frequent, reliable, accessible and affordable. If people had such an option, I’m convinced that many would happily leave their car at home. In this instance, the Minister’s actions are completely at odds with the stated Government policy of encouraging increased use of public transport.”
Changes to the Dublin 15 route would mean access for Dunboyne and Littlepace passengers to Clonsilla Station and also a bus link between coolmine station and blanchardstown centre with the 37.

Dublin Bus are appealing the decision.

To approve a scheme to charge the motorist to park-and-ride and reject a public transport improvement is beyond me!

Note the whole Dublin 15 changes are held up because of this
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Unread 31-07-2008, 03:37   #60
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OK heres the article from the Blanch Gazette - its a diary article by Jim Lacey

Quote:
Green Party representative Roderic O'Gorman has called on Fingal County Council (FCC)to take measures to aid residents of estates in the vicinity of Coolmine Railway station suffering from the large volume of commuter-based parking.

O'Gorman had been canvassing in Carpenstown and Luttrell Park, and said that many residents raised concerns about what they see as unfair parking by rail commuters. They also mentioned the potential for the escalation of this problem when Irish Rail's proposal to place a charge on parking in their car parks comes to fruition.

Residents complain of being unable to negotiate roads leading to their homes, bin lorries have difficulty accessing estates and, even more worryingly emergency vehicles could be prevented from carrying out their duties as a result of traffic parked on both sides of the road.

The Planning Department of FCC specifically instructed builders and developers to provide hammerheads in the design of new estates to enable emergency and public utility turning space and room to manoevre.

Why then allow vehicles to block them?

O'Gorman says that he wrote to FCC suggesting the use of single yellow lines to ensure at least one side of the road does not become blocked with parked cars. He has also called for the gap on the double yellow lines on the Riverwood Road, near the entrance to Luttrell Park Grove, to be filled in.

He goes on to say that he sees these as sensible solutions to the significant problems being faced by residents due to unfair parking.

Should they prove successful here he feels that they should be rolled out to other estates such as Carpenstown Park, Kirkpatrick and Rockfield to ensure that parking doesn't impact on residents.

Already myself and other residents, including Carpenstown Residents Association, have written to the Traffic Department in FCC on similar lines. My representations did not merit a reply, despite FCCs Citizens Charter stating that they will acknowledge all letters in need of reply within three days of receipt and will issue full replies within 15 working days.

Cllr Mags Murray attended a meeting at the junction of Cherry Lawn/ Cherry Park along with a member of the Garda Traffic Corp and local residents, where a dangerous bend and hammerhead has been plaged with careless commuter paking.

The Traffic Department's answer was either to remove part of the green space to allow for commuter parking or alternatively install meters.

I wish Roderic O'Gorman the best of luck in his attempts to have FCC treat the residents concerns seriously.
I know a few friends from around Carpenstown Park and they have told of stories of where cars were "abandoned" by commuters.

Whats to stop this happening elsewhere i local areas beside stations when these charges come in and commuters do not wish to pay them?
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